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 Post subject: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2016, 11:30 am 
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Joined: June 25th, 2008, 6:39 pm
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Hi Evie
This year has also been slow for us for rental inquiries. The reduced number of inquiries has resulted in confirmed bookings for the peak weeks of July and August. but I had these back in January / February. Yesterday I did get another booking for 2nd and 3rd weeks in July so I have more than covered all my expenses which is my objective.
I have noticed that since Owners Direct and Homelidays have been incorporated with Home Away I have had fewer inquiries. Maybe this is due to the wider range of websites / portals that Home Away advertise on diluting our exposure.
I even wonder now whether it's worth paying for these two advertisers particularly now they are radically changing their fees structure.
They will be charging our potential guests 6% booking fee on top of our rental income! I wonder if this increase for potential renters put them off.
I would be intersted to hear from other Forum users on this topic.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2016, 1:06 pm 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2009, 3:16 pm
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Location: N Ireland
I am also with HomeAway and, as this year has been so bad (only one 3-week rental), I am going to change to PAYG so as not to incur the annual subscription. Last year I had 11 weeks rental so was happy with that and previous years were good. I wonder has the migrants ariving in Calabria had any impact of potential rental clients.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2016, 10:40 pm 
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Home And Away and Owners have a customer reviews and every one is complaining about the Bad service they are all getting very little bookings all over Europe ,


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2016, 9:08 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Re My posting on Home Away. I received this notification from them today.

"The service fee is charged to travellers who book and pay through the Owners Direct checkout. The amount of the fee is a percentage of the total rental cost, and will average out at around 6% of the total booking fee. The service fee is added to all listings that allow travellers to book online - whether they pay through Online Payments, or your preferred payment methods. Travellers will pay the service fee by credit card."

This extra 6% service charge to potential guests on top of the rent may well put them off booking.
If the canny guests check out the property name on Google or some such search engine they will find in our case a direct way of booking through the owners website.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2016, 10:46 pm 
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Joined: July 19th, 2010, 3:14 pm
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This 6% is going to put people off booking There is a website for owners to advertise on holidayhomesdirect.co.uk they charge 99 euros plus vat per year,


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 26th, 2016, 11:37 pm 
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Joined: September 25th, 2016, 6:48 pm
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I'm a bit late hopping on this topic!

Absolutely right - I had one 3 week booking this year. Past years, I have had up to 9 guests per year. That was in the days when "the boys" (as I called them) were running Holiday Lettings, before the big guns stepped in for a slice of pie and took the whole pie. It's true, now the corporations have got in there, (paid off the originators) it's not the same, and it's hard work.

I went with PAG (pay as you go on one site this year). I don't believe they gave PAG the same exposure as annual fee-payers. Reviews from past guests - I think they help guest choices and if you don't have as many might dampen a chance for prospective guests. Because I was renting before "reviews" were an option on the websites, I cannot now go back to old guests comments and ask them to post for me. They aren't able to post a review, unless they show being booked through their site.

The annual fee used to provided simply exposure. I dealt with the payments, and communication with guest, and I preferred it that way. Which does make you wonder how they validated taking $300/year to advertise. It's such work these days helping a guest book, plus they have to pay a few to the Holiday Letters, or whoever.

Like most of us, those rentals are what I need to keep up with expenses.

Thanks for suggestions!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 27th, 2016, 1:33 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Hi psychcentral1,
As you have said, dvertising holiday properties has changed in the past couple of years with Trip Advisor and Home Away taking over the smaller companies. At least as far as Homelidays and Owners Direct which I use to advertise separately, I now only have to pay one fee as they are both advertised on these portals with Home Away.
I have had slightly less bookings and had some vacancies in June, July and September this year but have still just covered my expenses.
These past few weeks I have been getting inquiries for July/ August 2017 much earlier than previous years.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 27th, 2016, 5:05 pm 
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Hi TravelCalabria, I checked out that rental website, direction..something UK and they are charging the same as other sites, along with the PAG options, so don't see the difference/advantage.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 14th, 2016, 12:20 pm 
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Joined: November 14th, 2016, 12:10 pm
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David Nam
Which advertising sites are you using now ?
Also do you book your clients via the website or directly with yourself ?
Homeaway have now more less forced us to book through the website .So I am paying an advertising fee and they also charge a large fee for the booking .They keep the money until arrival .If we don't use their booking system the we are penalised with the level at which our advert is displayed ?
I am interested in your views.I think a lot of clients are now using Airbnb to book ,I had 1 client this year through them .I hope you are well. Pamela


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 14th, 2016, 12:33 pm 
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I personally think the rental websites are making the process complicated and they are going to do themselves harm in the long run .I had few enquiries this year and I booked them directly, only one person booked through the website .
It is now more stressful and very difficult to know what to charge as the extra charges mean less money for the owner and sometimes it is just not worth it with taxes and cleaning fees etc .
I think we should make our voice heard to Homeaway and the other advertisers to highlight these points .
I also think Airbnb are running away with the trade now they are so popular and many people are using this site now .
I think it is okay after you get used to the quirky way it works but overall I think rental prices have been seriously eroded in Calabria ,to get rentals ,at the expense of providing a good quality accomodation for a wonderful holiday .
My Italian neighbour gave me a lecture on charging too little for my apartment and she says we must maintain good prices to keep the business afloat .
Traditionally before the large number of apartment complexes being built in the last 9 years it was very expensive to rent and stay in Calabria July and August .
If you check out the prices of Hotels etc in the summer it is still very expensive .
So in conclusion I think we are short changing ourselves and we should keep our prices reasonably high to keep the market buoyant ,after all we are offering a holiday stay in a very beautiful place .


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 14th, 2016, 10:16 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Hi Rainbow9 / Pamela,
The advertising sites I use now include Owners Direct (now HomeAway), I have stopped paying Homelidays as they are now part of Homeaway so I save almost £300 and I can still be seen on Homelidays and other websites they have in their 'stable'. I am with Holiday Lettings now part of Trip Advisor. Both these websites try to get the guests to pay through them for a fee. I try to avoid this although they keep popping up a window trying to get you to sign up with them. I do try and contact the potential guests directly if I can find their email or telephone number and save them the booking fee that they would have to if booking through the website. Since HomeAway have taken over Owners Direct and Homelidays my inquiries have dropped and this past year the number of bookings I have had this past year are 3 weeks less than I have had the past 5 years.
The other websites I advertise on are Tourist-Paradise and the following free websites of Atraveo (commission based), Domegos, Holiday-Rentals-Worldwide, ferienhausmarkt.com, pensionen-weltweit.de. None of these free websites have given me a booking.
I have recently signed on with Airbnb but only have had one inquiry which I had to turn down.
As regards prices, I have kept my prices the same for the past 8 years and it is quoted in Euros. I use the current Fx rate of the day when I quote to a UK potential guest. Now that the GBP is low to the Euro the rental price may appear expensive but is still excellent value for what we can offer in Calabria. I don't think keeping the prices high is necessarily a good policy as this can put guests off. Now with UK holiday makers having the uncertain future with falling GBP, the situation with visas in the future, EHIC card etc. as Brexit fallout, it's not looking to bright to attract UK holiday makers to Calabria.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 15th, 2016, 5:53 pm 
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In my experience on my site people who rent do not inform their clients that there are rules to be adhered to ,they are only interested in taking the rent money and do not give a flying fig for their co owners.There are owners who cannot use the pool in late July and all of august because there are so many kids with inflatables etc parents who do not care if they are running around screaming jumping into the pool and behaving in a disgraceful manner!! Owners who do not rent have to see their condo fees which go towards the upkeep of the grounds and pool being used knowing that some of these renter's are in properties where the owner has not bothered to pay his share of the fees nor advised their clients either on their website or in the apts that there are rules.I hope the rental market does dry up.People who have to rent to pay their mortgages are thoughtless and selfish and if they could not have afforded the property on their own merit should not have bought!!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 17th, 2016, 12:35 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Hi Doodles,
Sorry to hear about the experiences you are having in your Condominium. You should get the condo committee to formalise rules about inflatables and bad behaviour when usuing the pool and these should be posted by the pool for all to see. It may well be more difficult on developments with a large number of properties and limited pool facilities but a ban on using inflatables in the pool should not be that difficult to enforce.
As far as owners not paying their condo fees is something you should really clamp down on them. Renters and owners of these properties should be banned from using the pool facilities and maybe a 'name and shame' notices be posted on their properties and in the grounds may help.
Maybe I am fortunate that I have a property on a small development of only 20 properties that can use a relatively large pool and we also have Condo rules which I send to all my renters. You need to hire someone who will enforce the Condo Rules and police the pool area in peak times.
I think your last comments were a bit harsh but I can see where you are coming from. People who do buy should not rely on rentals to pay their mortgage.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 17th, 2016, 7:49 pm 
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Hello Davidnam We have our meeting every year with the administrator and we vote to fine these people for non payment or for not looking after their gardens and owners speak their concerns about the pool etc but nothing gets done because it would take so long through the courts should we ever have to take this route and sadly people know this. We need a "lifeguard" for want of a better word who could keep an eye on users and there behaviour but this should be paid for by the people who rent their properties not other owners who do not.We have even had paying renters invite friends/family people they have met in a bar to come and use our pool, How do you police this? Not only that, renters have got to the site and then have friends join them and sleep in the apts without paying!!When challenged they have threatend to trash the apts and even physical violence sadly in this case they were from northern Italy!!Every summer there is a problem but until owners who rent accept some responsibility instead of taking the money and turning a blind eye as they are miles away ,the rest of us must suffer.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: November 18th, 2016, 10:01 am 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Doodles,
I am so sorry for you and the others. You really do have problems with some owneres and renters. You need to get legal advise and pursue that course otherwise it will not stop. Maybe you could see if the local Police can intervene. I am at a loss to what you can do to sanction these irresponsible owners and renters who are nothing more than deplorable persons.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 20th, 2017, 2:51 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Just received this communication from my Italian accountant. Instead of receving a tax demand we have to pay up front and hope to get a rebate. I wonder if there is any rebate due how long would it take for them to send it back to you?

"Dear All,
As you may have read on our website, the recent law D.L. 50/2017 is changing the way income on tourist rentals (rentals of fewer than 30 days at a time) are treated.
As of 1st June 2017, any intermediary involved in tourist rentals - so any letting agent or online portal such as Airbnb, Booking.com, HomeAway etc, - will be obliged to inform the Agenzia of bookings made. In addition, where the agent or portal receives rental income on behalf of the owner, they will deduct 21% of the gross rental as withholding tax. This will be forwarded, on your behalf, directly to the Agenzia as advance payment of the tax due.
What is the consequence of this for you?
In the past we have endeavoured to minimise your tax liability by declaring your rentals as occasional commercial income. The justification for this was that you offered a minimum service in addition to simply making the property available – the provision of welcome facilities, or the provision of bed linen for example – and this has meant you have had the benefit of a tax credit and deduction of some costs, generally resulting in a zero tax liability.
With the introduction of this new law it appears that this small loophole is going to be closed.
If you use a letting agent or online portal to advertise your property, then from June onwards all your contracts will be reported directly to the Agenzia. If the agent/portal also handles monies for the bookings, 21% will be withheld on account of tax and forwarded to the Agenzia. In either case you will still need to make a tax return to declare this income: it’s just that the Agenzia will have a much better idea of what you should be declaring.
For those of you who do not use any kind of intermediary (if this is still possible in the Internet age!) this latest move by the Agenzia seems to indicate that the occasional commercial income route will no longer be available. Tax will need to be paid either at 21% on the total rental income or at the ordinary tax band rate on 95% of the rental income (5% being allowed on account of costs). No other costs will be deductible. This will have no impact on your Italian return this year, but any income you receive in respect of contracts concluded from June 2017 onwards will be subject to the new law.

Those of you who use agencies or online portals would be well advised to contact them to ask what plans they have to change their practice in view of the new Italian law."


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2017, 6:21 pm 
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With only 5% being allowed for expenses, it is questionable whether it's worth renting out at all! This will also hit those owners who currently do not do a tax return.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2017, 12:18 pm 
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As long as I get my usual amount of annual rentals I can cover all my costs plus a small profit which is fine as far as I am concerned. The problem will arise if it takes the Agenzia a long time before reimbursing you the 21% advance tax paid. With the relatively small rental amounts received I shouldn't have to pay much tax if at all.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2017, 10:08 pm 
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David, you have interpreted it differently from me and I hope you are correct! My understanding is that we will be taxed on the rental income, not the profit. Currently, under the occasional income option, we would need to make approx 4800 euros profit before we would be taxed and, as I do not make that much profit, I have had no tax to pay so far. However under this new system we would have to pay 21% of the rental income irrespective of whether we make only a small profit. So quite a hefty tax bill. I hope I'm mistaken!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 24th, 2017, 10:23 am 
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As I understand it the 21% paid by the companies that take the guests rental charges (eg Homeaway and Trip Advisor) to the Agenzia is an advance payment of tax that may be due. This is designed to bring in as much tax as possible and to catch out all those persons who have been renting out and not declaring their income.
I think that when the annual return is made and your profit if any is calculated we should be getting a rebate. as far as we are in Calabria, our rental income is relatively small compared to those further north. Surely our small annual rental income in the €3-5K range is small fry and shouldn't attract a 21% tax rate.
If you are correct and that only 5% is allowed for expenses we will be hit badly.
If we have to pay this 21% tax on our income most websites that take rent up front and pay the 21% to the Agenzia will find that their clients will go elsewhere. Unless they come up with a solution like Homeaway that has an option for us to collect rental income direct from the guests. I have in fact just cancelled my 'On-line payments' system with them and dealt with a new guest directly as Owners Direct (now HomeAway) were in the past.
I guess we will have to check with Judith on their interpretation on this. It will be interesting to see what Trip Advisor etc will do about this.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 24th, 2017, 5:48 pm 
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Judith had already mentioned to me last year (and presumably to you) the 2 methods of doing the tax return. I always chose the occasional commercial income option which resulted in a zero tax liability. What is described above is the same as the 2nd option she had told me about with the only difference being that the rental companies would now be involved. 5% of the rental income would be tax-free (a very small insufficient allowance for expenses) and we'd have to pay 21% (or similar) tax on the other 95%. She says above that, eve if we do not use a intermediary rental company, that this new law suggests that the occasional commercial income route will not be accepted. This year I only had 1 booking through HomeAway as the others are repeats or referrals from other owners.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 25th, 2017, 12:08 am 
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Evie,
If you are correct it is a high rate to pay for little return. Apart from the 5% allowance for expenses there surely must be a personal allowance which you have tax free and anything above that will be taxed at 21%.
This new tax rule is for all rentals throughout Italy and will if the you are correct hit the tourist trade badly as landlords will put their rents up to help compensate for the tax which will result in less peole coming to Italy,
I have a couple of rentals through intermediary companies who pay me after the June date. It'll be interesting to see what they will do. I won't be mentioning anything to them and see if I do get all that is due to me. Another possible way of getting around this is for the rentals to be paid by an intermediary company into a UK bank account so they may not then take the 21% off and pay the Agenzia.
We will probably have to wait to see what happens and accept it if the worse comes to the worse!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 26th, 2017, 5:44 pm 
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HomeAway (and Holiday lettings when I was with them) already pay in to my UK account. The only folk I ask to pay in to my Chebanca account are clients from mainland Europe not through HomeAway which would be rare although applies to my 2 repeat clients this year. Yes the tax-free allowance would be a sensible idea. I think I'll just wait and see!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: May 26th, 2017, 9:43 pm 
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Evie,
I have emailed Judith for clarification so we shall see what she comes back with.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2017, 10:23 pm 
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I have just received this email from Atraveo (TUI).
We can only hope that this is not ratified by the Senate,

"Temporary pause of the online advertising due to decree-law regarding withholding tax
Dear Mr Nam,
we contact you today regarding the Italian decree Nr. 50 Article Nr. 4 dated 24 April 2017 regarding the „withholding tax related to short stays“ with regard to the rental of holiday homes and apartments in Italy.
The Italian government has, as you might already know, won a confidence vote on a new draft law in the lower house on 31 May 2017. The senate is likely to decide on it next week. If the law enters into force, all bookings which you confirm starting from 1 June 2017 will be affected.
Inter alia, the decree-law provides that the atraveo GmbH as intermediary, who assumes the collection of customer payments, is obliged to withhold a tax amounting to 21% of the customer payments and to pay it to the Italian tax office.
Unfortunately implementing rules for withholding and payment of this tax do not exist yet, so that the exact procedure for us as intermediary is still unclear. Thus, we have decided at short notice to pause the online advertising of your property / your properties in order to adapt to new processes.
Obviously we are very interested in sending you again bookings for your holiday accommodation in the approaching last-minute-season as soon as possible. That is why you have the possibility to enable the online advertising in your owner area on your own.
Important: If you decide to continue the online advertising of your properties on our websites, please note that the atraveo GmbH will hold back payments for the time being for bookings which you confirm as of now because of the missing implementing rules. You will give your approval in your owner area continuing the online advertising. For this purpose, you will have to click in your owner area on „My properties“, the blue pencil to edit the presentation and then on „continue online advertising“.
What does it mean for you?
If you decide to continue the online advertising of your property / your properties, you will agree that the customer will pay the rent to us when the booking is confirmed, however we will not be able to forward the payment to you for the moment, until the decree-law will be finally decided and implementing rules will be defined.
We are aware that this requires great confidence in the atraveo GmbH. All customer payments which we receive will be kept safe with fiduciary diligence. Bookings which you have already confirmed until 31 May 2017 are not concerned.
In the event that the senate rejects the draft law next week, we will promptly continue the online advertising of your property / your properties.
We will keep you informed on the next steps to be taken and thank you for your understanding and your trust.
Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best Regards
Your owner service"


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: June 4th, 2017, 6:06 pm 
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Thanks David, it's good it doesn't affect bookings made prior to June. Obviously the rental companies are unsure what to do. I haven't heard from HomeAway yet but may not get any more rentals this season. If the law is introduced I think I would stop renting out but we'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: June 8th, 2017, 9:51 am 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
These are my questions and the replies I received from my Italian Accountant re the new tax rules. Haven't heard what decision the Senate made regarding this poposal. All we can hope for that the Senate rejects the proposals.

Q1. Do we as non-residents attract a nil band of tax?
A. No
Q2. Is the 21% taken by the intermediary companies an advance payment of tax?
A. According to the new law it should be.
Q3. If advance payment(s) have been made could there ne a tax rebate after the submission of the annual tax return?
A. We imagine this is doubtful, but frankly we are all in the dark here.
Q4. Is this a fixed 21% tax on all rental income?
A. The cedolare secca option, if applied, is a fixed 21% on gross rentals with no deduction for costs. If no option is made then the usual tax bands apply, starting at 23%.
Q5. Presumably, if we as owners collect our rental income directly from the guests we should inform the Agenzia (presumably via our tax return) of this income?
A. Yes – you would make the usual tax return to declare your income. Our concern is that the move to deduct 21% at source is an indication that the Agenzia is seeking to eliminate the occasional commercial route which we have used in appropriate cases to date.
Q 6. Is the 21% tax taken (or due) is calculated on 95% of the rental income?
A. No – it’s 21% with no deduction, or if you have civil contracts (which ought to cite the appropriate civil law) then you can deduct 5% and pay at IRPEF rates on the remaining 95% (lowest tax band 23%)

Edited posting to include what i have said below!

Sorry folks,
Bad news!
I have just been sent this from Judith my Italian accountant.

"The law has been in force since the start of this month."

We will have to contact our advertisers who collect rentals on our behalf to see what they are going to do about this!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: June 9th, 2017, 10:33 am 
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Thanks David for posting this. It's as I suspected except for Q6 as I thought the 21% was on the 95% income. As we have considerable expenses it is an unreasonable rule!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: July 6th, 2017, 12:04 pm 
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I have just received this from Atraveo (TUI) re the 21% tax. It will be interesting to find out what other advertisers who use a direct payment system from the renters do now this new decree is in force?
I guess that direct payment to the owners is now the best course of action to take and then later to declare your rental earnings to the Agenzia and pay them directly rather than it be taken initially by the advertiser.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this other than not renting out anymore or increasing the rents by 21% to cover the tax.
I have only had one renter from Atraveo in the past 6 years that I have been with them and they take a 15% commission. I will be increasing my rentals with Atraveo (f I decide to stay with them) by an extra 21% ie 36% above my base rate rentals for the particular time of the season.

"Legislative decree on flat-rate tax retention has been passed – what happens next?
Dear Mr Nam,
We are contacting you today with new information about Italian Decree No. 50, Article 4, dated 24.04.2017, on the "flat-rate tax retention for short stays" with regard to the rental of holiday accommodation in Italy.
As you may already know, the Italian Senate adopted the law on flat-rate tax retention on 15.06.2017. This affects all bookings that you have confirmed since 01.06.2017 and for which no valid VAT identification number exists.
Among other things, the law stipulates that atraveo GmbH - as an intermediary which undertakes the collection of customer payments - is obliged to retain the flat-rate tax of 21% on customer payments, and to transfer it to the Italian tax authorities.
Unfortunately, this decree still does not contain any implementation rules for the retention and payment of flat-rate tax, so the precise procedure for us as a mediator of your holiday accommodation remains unclear.
However, we would – of course - like to mediate bookings for the upcoming last-minute season for you, as soon as possible. This is why we already offer you the possibility, in your owner area, to make your holiday accommodation available for online advertising, if this is not already the case.
Important: If you decide to continue with the online advertising, please note that due to the lack of implementation rules, atraveo GmbH will retain customer payments for bookings that you confirm from now on until further notice. You can grant us your consent in your owner area by continuing with the online advertising. To do this, click on "My properties" in the owner area, then the blue pen symbol for editing, and finally click on "Continue online advertising". If you are in possession of a valid VAT identification number in Italy, we can forward the payments to you again as of now, provided that you tell us what the number is. You have two options for this:
1) Store the VAT identification number in your owner area under "My profile" or
2) Send us the VAT identification number by e-mail.
After checking the VAT identification number for validity and conformity, we will transfer the rental income to you as soon as possible. We are aware that this requires a great deal of trust in atraveo GmbH. We will, of course, hold the received customer payments in trust and treat them with the utmost care. Bookings which you already confirmed by 31.05.2017 will not be affected.
We will let you know as soon as possible about the further steps to be taken. We thank you for your trust and understanding.
We are happy to be at your disposal if you have any questions.
Kind regards,
Your Owner Service"


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: July 12th, 2017, 12:05 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
FYI. I received my full rental amount from Trip Advisor at the beginning of the month. Thankfully the 21% wasn't taken.
I confirmed with them that I had opted out of their 'HoldayRentPayment' (Yapstone) system which charge you 3% transaction fee for credit card payments by the guests.
I now back to where I was before with Owners Direct and that is that I communicate directly with the guests and receive payments from them into my UK or Italian accounts.
It is better that I receive all the rents and then pay my dues to The Agenzia after I have submitted my tax form.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 8th, 2017, 8:20 pm 
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Joined: June 25th, 2008, 6:39 pm
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Just received this email from Atraveo (TUI) re Italian tx on rentals.

" Dear Mr Nam,
We are contacting you today with new information on the retention of flat-rate tax, amounting to 21% for the short-term rental of holiday accommodation in Italy (Decree resolution No. 50, Article 4).

The law provides that atraveo GmbH, as an intermediary which takes over the collection of customer payments for you as the owner, should retain the flat-rate tax amounting to 21% of the customer payments and transfer it to the Italian tax authorities.

When do we charge the flat-rate tax?

- For bookings which you confirm from 01.06.2017.
- For bookings with a stay that is shorter than 30 days.
- If you rent out the property privately as an owner and do not operate as an entrepreneur with a VAT identification number.

On what amount will the flat-rate tax be charged?

The 21% flat-rate tax will be charged on the payments which the customer pays to atraveo. This applies, in any event, to the gross rental price (including commission), and also to additional services that have been paid to atraveo in advance. The visitor's tax /deposit are, of course, excluded from this.

In principle, we recommend that you specify in the owner area that additional services, which are not included in the rental price, shall be paid by the customers on site. Please note that in this case, you will be responsible for the payment of the flat-rate tax, amounting to 21% of the price for additional services. The same applies to bookings which you confirmed before 01.06.2017.

The flat-rate tax will be proportionally deducted from the initial and remaining payments that we forward to you, and will then be paid by us to the Italian tax authorities. This may lead to a very small initial payment (or none at all) being received by you.

atraveo GmbH is also obliged to forward the contractual details of the rental agreements to the financial authorities. We urgently require your personal tax number (codice fiscale) for this purpose. You can store it in your owner area under "My profile".

We will immediately begin advertising your holiday accommodation again online, after having paused this process in June. Please therefore update your occupancy calendar promptly.

Furthermore, we will forward the payments minus the flat rate (as well as our commission + VAT) to you during the course of next week, if you have confirmed bookings since 01.06.2017 and have agreed to us initially withholding the payments.

We thank you for your patience and understanding.

You are, of course, welcome to contact us if you have any questions.

Best Regards

Your owner service"

I won't be continuing with Atraveo at the present time.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 24th, 2017, 12:11 pm 
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I am very surprised that there has been no comments on this new tax regime by the Agenzia apart from Evie.
Is it that all those out there renting out their holiday homes have not been declaring their rental income to the Agenzia and even maybe to HMRC if they are UK residents?
I can certainly umnderstand that now with the 21% tax due on the rental income.
I cannot believe that only Evie and myself are renting out their holiday homes!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 24th, 2017, 12:26 pm 
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Speaking personally,i have only ever letmy place out twice and that was over 5years ago


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 24th, 2017, 8:15 pm 
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Joined: October 30th, 2009, 5:51 pm
Posts: 183
Location: Berkshire/Marina di Caulonia
Have never rented so not applicable to us.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 25th, 2017, 10:34 pm 
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David, I haven't heard anything more about the new tax and certainly nothing from HomeAway. I know lots of folk who rent out but they don't do a tax return in Italy (some do in UK, others not at all).


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 26th, 2017, 11:53 am 
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Evie,
Tui / Atraveo are the only ones I've heard from regarding the new tax. Maybe because its a German Eurozone based company that they have been informed about it. Homeaway, Trip Advisor and others may not be up to speed with it but will I am sure will be made aware of it. In the meantime it may be better to get as many rental payments paid into your own bank so the 21% is not taken off automatically by the property advertising portals who accept payment on your behalf. This is the strategy I am going with, I do prefer communicating directly with my guests and initially reassure them I am the actual owner and not a scammer.
I was aware that many don't declare their rental earnings in Italy and some not even in their home countries. If they are found out they could get wrapped on the knuckles for it and be fined. In Italy I don't want any extra problems to deal with when selling my property as they can find out whether you are renting your holiday home out. I have been told that even if you don't rent your property out you are supposed to file a tax return. If this hasn't been done it could prove an obstacle when selling. Every home owner has to pay IMU so everyone is on their data base.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 26th, 2017, 6:14 pm 
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I get some rentals through repeat bookings or by referral from other owners and they pay directly in to my bank account. So it's just the HomeAway clients that don't. We will have to wait and see, I'm hoping the new tax will disappear!


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 27th, 2017, 10:52 am 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Evie,
I managed to get my Homeaway (Owners Direct) guests paid directly into my UK account in full after June this year. I believe that I can get paid directly from the guests as their telephone number and or email were displayed at some stage. I will find out next year when I hopefully receive inquiries. I do not subscribe to Home Away's booking or on-line payments systems.
I have just received my first Airbnb guest and payment into my UK account. My apartment is advertised in euros and was paid the current FX rate. They appear to be a good and straight forward company to advertise with.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 27th, 2017, 3:15 pm 
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Location: Berkshire/Marina di Caulonia
I thought that if you were retired and did not rent you did not need to file a tax return? You have no Italian income and pay UK tax.


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 27th, 2017, 9:24 pm 
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David, I am PAYG with HomeAway (have subscribed in the past) and I don't think it's possible to bypass their payment system as the phone number/email address does not appear until they have made their final payment. It may be different for annual subscribers.

Beauyash, I would have thought that you would only need to submit an Italian tax return if you have income in Italy?


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 Post subject: Re: RENTALS 2016
PostPosted: September 28th, 2017, 10:47 am 
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Joined: June 25th, 2008, 6:39 pm
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
I will try and clarify the position of a tax return. I was told that you had to some time ago and as you say it may be different if you are retired.


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