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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 14th, 2014, 6:06 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
This is what I have just received from my Italian accountant that deals with my tax return.

"20% withholding tax on all transfers from overseas.
We put an article on our website about this earlier this year but the idea seemed so preposterous that we all hoped it would fall into general disregard.
Instead it seems they are going ahead with it.
In brief, as of 1st February 2014 Italian banks are required to deduct 20% withholding tax automatically from any overseas transfers arriving in personal accounts, and will pay this over to the Italian Revenue as advance tax.
This is being done on the assumption that all such transfers are "profit from investment" and would in any event need to be declared (and taxed) in the subsequent tax return: they are in effect taking an advance on the tax owed.
"Profit from investment" includes interest, income from property (i.e.rentals), gains from the sale of property, etc.
If you have transfers which should not be subject to this withholding tax you need to inform your bank of this: it should be possible to make one blanket declaration in respect of the whole tax year. Unfortunately we have yet to find a bank who has a system in place for these notifications - they have all been taken a little unawares.
You have until 28 February each year following any deduction to contest it and require the bank to repay it - i.e. until 28 February 2015 for deductions made this year. Note that the bank will pass details of the transfer (and your name) to the Agenzia, whether or not they make the withholding.
Clearly the aim is to flush out some new tax-payers, but it does seem a very heavy-handed way of going about it.

We are sketching out our own standard letter for giving notice to the banks - let us know if you would like a copy."

It seems that the Italian tax authorities or the government has a crass way of doing things. How will the banks be able to decide if money is sent that it's for paying bills, mortgage etc and not profit.
Will they change their mind on this now Letto the Pm has resigned and Enzi taking his position. They do belong to the same centre left party.
They can't seem to get their act together with regards to the 'Service Tax' the replacement for IMU Tax so will they implement this ready for the end of February this year !!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 14th, 2014, 10:27 pm 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2009, 3:16 pm
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Location: N Ireland
This is very unfair because the money I transfer to my Italian account is not 'profit', it is to pay bills (mortgage, property manager, electricity etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 15th, 2014, 10:26 am 
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David
I replied to this under the other heading and have just read the above.
Hopefully it wont go through with new PM in place.

If possible a copy of the letter you are drafting would be much appreciated.

As Evie says it is so unfair.

Still can't believe it thanks so much for bringing it to our attention

mags


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 15th, 2014, 11:29 am 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Hi Evie and Mags,
This is the email I received from the accountants after requesting the letter to send to my bank.

"Antonio is adamant that non-residents should not be subject to the withholding, so is drafting a (third!) form of letter to be given to the bank self-certifying exemption for this reason. We'll get something to you next week."

As soon as I get the letter from Judith / Antonio I will disseminate to all on the Forum.
I can understand them trying to catch those (like the criminal organisations) who are trying to evade tax but we have to suffer the consequences !!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 16th, 2014, 9:47 pm 
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Please can someone tell me if this 20% tax is applied to all money sent into my italian bank account I.e.if money comes from a euro zone company or person e.g italian or German or is it just on international transfers .ie money from England or a different currency from euro .Thank you for telling me about this I haven't paid any money into my account this year so I don't think anything has been deducted ,when was the tax initiated ? Thanks again for all the info and help it is appreciated .I am getting very frustrated with the banking system in Italy ,they are very poor at communicating with me .If they take this 20% tax and it is taken wrongly to have to dispute and reclaim it from them would be a nightmare scenario as I cannot even get an answer from them on simple things .


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 16th, 2014, 11:12 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Pamela,
As I understand, it refers to all money credited to your Italian account unless you can get exemtion for monies being credited.
View the accountants website on
http://www.studiodelgaizopicchioni.it/
This will give you the current information. If I get further news I will post it on this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 17th, 2014, 12:50 pm 
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Thanks David ,it is sort of scandalous don't you think ?


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 17th, 2014, 1:13 pm 
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Have replied here, David, so that there aren't 2 different headings talking about the same thing.

I emailed the fx company that we deal with and the reply said they had not heard of this before... the 20% tax. They say if it is true it seems extortionate but to please check with our bank here in Italy and let them know if this is the case.

Well... that will be so difficult to do. There is only one bank here in Botricello and no matter when you go in the queue is endless. We have waited an hour before being served as there's always only one teller on duty. Other bank staff seem to swan back and forward to the photocopier and the manager sits in his office at a computer.
We were there this morning just to get a print out of recent transactions. I also wanted to know if I could get a balance from the bancomat as I have a bancomat card from them. This would save waiting in the endless queues but even though I spoke my best Italian I couldn't get an answer, my Italian wasn't obviously good enough.

I'll wait until I have someone here who can translate for me and phone the bank and ask them about this.

Meanwhile I go back home next week for 10 days so will just have to bring euros back with me as I don't want to risk transferring money.

Just hope I can pay car insurance at the post office and get our sky direct debit to transfer to sending us monthly bills.

All a big muddle and a worry at the moment but after paying so much in commission to the bank last year I would gladly close the account.

There is a pre paid card that you can get from UK can't remember name at moment but their charges are peanuts compared to this.

On a more positive note... sunny and warm here today. T shirt weather just lovely
mags


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 17th, 2014, 8:23 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Hi Mags,
Yes, this is the correct thread to discuss Rentals Income Tax and this new 20% tax for money transfers. It was only at the end of last year or early January that the new Budget changes were announced by the authorities so I am not surprised tghat people aree not aware of it.
Sorry to hear that your local bank also has customer service issues. I experienced this attitude some years ago when I was enquiring in a local bank in Tropea, they just didn't want to service you!!

The reason I used the 'IMU Caculator' thread was to highlight the accountants website (http://www.studiodelgaizopicchioni.it/i ... atest-news) for the information he had on the change to the new IUC (Imposta Unica Cumunale) the unified Community tax the all in one Tax for IMU (property), TASI (service tax) and TARI (refuse tax).
.
The prepaid Euro card that I have used in the past was with Caxton Fx. You can apply for a card on-ine on https://www.caxtonfx.com/
I do have a Barclays Debit card but have not used it for a couple of years. I keep it for emergencies if I run short of cash because of their charges.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 18th, 2014, 5:16 pm 
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According to the accountant webpage, given by Davidnam, the EU are looking at this 20% tax as it may contravene the free movement of capital and goods. Hopefully it will be changed before we have to do anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 18th, 2014, 5:55 pm 
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Location: Italy
My understanding is that the 20% tax rate is for Italians who have undeclared assets or funds abroad. They can declare it when moving it back to Italy and pay 20% - or lose most of it when found out through the new international evasion treaties.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 18th, 2014, 7:00 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
It has just been brought to my attention that this communication (see below), found on the Home page of Barclays Home Banking that was posted early February.
It does state that this is for Italian Residents so we non Italian resident hoiday home owners in Italy are exempt from this regulation for now.
I will still send a letter to Barclays to get exemption from this 20% advance tax and just see what they say if they bother to reply.

Google translation

"regulatory news
With effect from 1 February 2014, in force of the new provisions concerning the obligations imposed on financial intermediaries operating in Italy involved in collecting on behalf of its clients of the income arising from investments held abroad and foreign assets of nature financial reporting. Download the attachment for details.


Regulatory news for taxpayers who hold investments abroad and foreign assets of a financial nature

From 1 February 2014 will come into force the new provisions concerning the obligations imposed on the
financial intermediaries operating in Italy involved in collecting on behalf of its customers
Income from investments held abroad by the foreign operations of a financial nature .

What is the customer subject to the tax regime sudedtto ?

All persons residing in Italy are obliged to monitor tax :
- individuals ;
- non-commercial entities , including trusts and foundations ;
- partnerships and equivalent entities .


What are the obligations of Barclays ?

Barclays , should intervene in the collection of income from foreign investments and foreign operations of nature
financial , must operate, assumed by customers referred to above, tax at source of 20% . The imposition
can be a provisional tax or permanent depending on the circumstances income .
The tax regime in question applies regardless of whether a formal office, attributed by customers to
Bank , to proceed to the collection of the said income and is placed in a general way , regardless of whether
that the investments held abroad and the foreign operations of a financial nature have been entrusted for safekeeping ,
administration or management of the intermediary.

What are the obligations for the customer ?

- You can not ask for the application of withholding tax by sending a certification made ​​by Barclays in its free form ,
in which the client stating the nature of the flows of income from foreign sources received .
This certification can be made in advance and can also affect the generality of the flow of source
that will be accredited to foreign Barclays. In the presence of the said certification will not be applied
any taxation. However , the Bank must report the name of the Financial Administration
taxpayer and the amount of flow.

- Alternatively, the customer can provide the Bank with all the data necessary for the proper identification of the case
income and its tax base on which the intermediary must apply the withholding tax of 20%.

In the absence of self- certifying the nature of the flows of foreign source income or of
information necessary for the identification and quantification of the chargeable event , Barclays will have to apply the
taxation of 20% on the entire amount of the cash from abroad.

Soon we will be able to provide all the operational details for the self-certification and will receive a special
communication in this regard.


For more information contact the toll free number 800 205 205 or the branch to which they belong ."


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 19th, 2014, 11:56 pm 
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davidnam, you have probably received the sample letters from Judith that we can send to our bank. The relevant bit google translated says "hereby certifies , as required by the Revenue Agency Circular no. 38 / E of 23/12/2013 , not to be a tax resident in Italy in accordance with article 2, paragraph 2 , of the Tax Code and that therefore lacks the subjective condition for the application of the withholding tax of 20% on amounts credit the mentioned bank account as specified in the same Circular 38 / E under 1.1. It therefore calls on such income is not applied to the proposed withholding tax of 20%".
So in between the legal bits, I think this letter is informing our bank that we are not resident in Italy (unless tax resident means something different e.g. eligible to pay tax in Italy). So if, as said in recent posts above, this 20% tax only applies to Italian residents, we still need to tell our bank we are not Italian residents? Surely more proof than simply sending them a letter is required? I'll ask Judith and report back here.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 20th, 2014, 10:17 am 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Latest news from the Italian accountant.

"COLPO DI SCENA!!!

What can compare to the thrills and spills of life in Italy?

We hear today that the law relating to 20% withholding tax on overseas transfers, the subject of huge discussion (and consternation) in recent days, has been SUSPENDED, a mere 20 days after its implementation. As U-turns go, this has to be one of the most abrupt in history. The apparent justification for this is that a new inter-governmental agreement for the exchange of information on movement of capital (Common Reporting Standard) has been approved and that this renders the Italian provision unnecessary. Implementation of the 20% withholding has therefore been postponed until 1st July 2014, with the expectation that this will provide enough time for the Common Reporting Standard to come into force.

Any sums deducted from transfers arriving since 1st February are to be re-accredited."

Itaian rersidents can breathe a sigh of relief for now !!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 20th, 2014, 1:30 pm 
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Thank you to all for this information ,so at the risk of sounding stupid ,would the 20% deduction have only been applied to italian residents ?
The bank know if you are a resident in Italy so presumably it would be unnecessary to inform them of this particularly a my big problem with the bank account with Barclays in Milan is I simply cannot get in contact with them ,they send me emails on money laundering etc and I have tried to ring them several times ,I sit on the phone listening to a prerecorded message telling me they will answer me I am in a queue but it just doesn't happen !
Also it costs me a lot of money to ring Italy .
I have sent 10 emails in the last weeks to several different email addresses that worked before and I have not had any reply .I really am so frustrated with this account I want to close it ! They keep suggesting in their letters that I visit my branch in Milan ,I am almost tempted to go on the next plane !
Good news that I will not have 20% deducted from my hard earned money on transfer to pay italian bills! thanks to all for the information .


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 20th, 2014, 3:17 pm 
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Pamela

Which branch of Barclays are you with on Milan?

Lorica


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: February 20th, 2014, 3:35 pm 
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Pamela, yes it only applies to Italian residents however the accountant said we would need to write to our Italian bank to inform them that we are not residents (as "self-certification") but anyway it isn't required after all thankfully!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: March 26th, 2015, 12:26 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
This is what I have received from my Italian accountant and if correct knocks a big dent in ones income which helps to defray expenses.
Does anyone have any comments or other information on this?

"Dear All,
A word on declaring rental income.
As you may know in earlier years your return has been prepared on the basis that the rental is viewed as occasional commercial activity. This gives rise to a tax credit which generally entirely covers your tax liability and means you have no tax to pay.
We have however noted an increasing tendency on the part of the Agenzia to treat rentals of this kind in a less favourable manner than in the past. While we have declared them as occasional commercial income, which allows for deductions of the costs legitimately incurred in carrying out the activity and as mentioned above also entitles you to a tax credit, we note that this approach seems to be falling out of favour and in the cases we have seen the Agenzia has assessed on the basis that the income is instead reddito di fabbricato (income from your property). Under this system 95% of the rental income is taxed in accordance with the usual tax bands (starting at 23% with no personal allowance) and only 5% is allowed as a fixed deduction on account of costs. There is no tax credit for this type of income. As you will appreciate, in your case this would result in a far larger tax liability.
We will follow your instructions in this regard but you do need to be aware that if you declare your income as occasional commercial income there is a risk that the Agenzia, if it were to investigate your position, might reassess you to tax under the 5% regime and claim back tax, fines and interest.
Let us know if you would prefer not to take this risk, and we will calculate on the 95% basis outlined above.

I hope this is clear – please let us have your instructions."


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: March 26th, 2015, 11:09 pm 
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David, they sent me this when I was doing my tax return last Dec and I said I'd prefer to do the occasional commercial option. It says 95% of the rental INCOME i.e. not profit so would involve a big tax bill. I was thinking of taking a chance and continuing with the occasional commercial option but if they introduce the new system it's questionable if it's worth renting at all. What do you plan to do?


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: March 27th, 2015, 10:14 am 
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Hello Evie,
I will do the same as you and opt for the "occasional commercial" option.
The tax bill will be quite a lot of the income derived from renting ie 23% of 95% of the rent paid but I suppose it is better than nothing!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 13th, 2016, 5:15 pm 
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Location: Carmarthen, south west Wales / Santa Maria di Ricadi, Capo Vaticano
Re Income tax on my rentals on our apartment in Santa Maria di Ricadi.

I've just sent all the information my accountant required, signed the paperwork for them to send my tax return to the Agenzia. I paid a fee of €341.06 to the accountant for his sevices. This figure is for sending two returns as a separate one has to be sent for my wife due to joint ownership of the property. Although the fee of €170.53 pp has increased from last year for a single return it is substantially less than the full fee price they normally charge to clients.
I did some checks on whether it was worth paying out the accountants fee annually for the relatively small amount of rental income I receive each year, I believe quite a number of UK expats who do rent out their properties do not send their tax return to the Agenzia but declare their rentals to the HMRC in resident in UK.

These are the questions I posed and the answers to them that I received.

Are there laws in Italy that every non-resident holiday home owner, whether they rent or not have to send a return to the Agenzia?
No – this is no longer the case. Currently a non-resident property owner only needs to make a return in Italy if s/he make an income in Italy, e.g. by renting out their property. The rental income then also needs to be included in their HMRC return (assuming they are UK resident). Note that the principal obligation is to the country in which the property is situated and it is here that the income must first be declared and tax paid – the income will then also need to be declared in the country of residence, depending on that country’s tax rules. There should be a tax credit allowed in the UK for tax paid in Italy. It is not sufficient only to declare the rental income in the country of residence.

Would there be difficulties or delays when anyone wishes to sell their property if they haven't sent any Tax returns to the Agenzia?
No – they will remain liable to the Agenzia but no checks are carried out on sale, unless the Agenzia has already investigated the seller for non-payment of tax and put a charge on the property. You may be thinking of non-payment of IMU/Tasi, where the seller confirms in the sale documents that the property is free from all liabilities.

I hope this will help those who are renting their properties realise they should be informing the Agenzia initially and then inform the UK HMRC.
Due to the tax credit one receives from the Agenzia I have not had to pay any tax to date.

FYI the contact details of the person who I deal with is a Brit named Judith and her contact details are:-
jruddock@studiodelgaizopicchioni.it


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 21st, 2016, 5:55 pm 
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Thanks David for this information. Did you ask these questions to the accountant or the Agenzia? As you know, I also use the same accountant but most folk I know only do the tax return in the UK (if even that). As you mention the tax credit, I presume you still use the 'occasional commercial activity' as opposed to the other alternative they offer (taxing 95% of the rental income)? To use the latter option would not be worth renting out. This has been my worst year renting out.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2016, 11:09 am 
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Hi Evie,
Good to hear from you again.
Yes, I asked the accountant what the legal aspects of renting out as a non Italian resident and a UK resident tax paying citizen.
I don't want to end up in trouble with the Agenzia (Italian Tax Authority) particularly as they are beginning to get their act together on tax receipts which Italy needs badly. I will no doubt sell my property in the future and do not want to have issues at that time with the Agenzia.
I declare my rental income as 'occasional commercial activity' so we have not had to pay any tax particularly as the property is in Joint Ownership we send two returns and the rental income halved for each of us.

Re your last sentence I will open a new thread for 'Rentals 2016' and see if we receive other comments and experiences from other renters.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2016, 1:13 pm 
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Thanks David, I agree. I paid a lot of bills during my recent visit (water, rubbish, IMU) as I prefer to be up-to-date with all payments.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2016, 9:25 pm 
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RE IMU or is it now called TASI the Comune Service Charge?
I hope I will pay this next week as well as my rubbish tax (TARI) which I have never paid. Some holiday home owners get their TARI bill through the post to UK. I have left my UK address with the Ricadi Comune each time I go but have not received my bill. I have been trying to pay this for 4 years!!
Thankfully our water charge is paid by our builder who still owns 10 properties which he rents out on our small resort. He claims it back annually with the electricity for the common areas, swimming pool costs, gardener, cleaner etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2016, 10:24 pm 
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After visiting the Commune last Sept, I now get my water and rubbish bills posted to the UK. Water bills are small but rubbish was 124 euros in 2015. Late penalties are negligible i.e. 1.50 euros. Apparently the penalty for late IMU is higher than that but I don't know the magnitude. It has taken quite a bit of effort including long visits to the Commune but I'm relieved that my bills are up-to-date at long last. I know many owners who have not make this effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 30th, 2016, 11:20 am 
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I may have finally cracked it and will get a Tarsi bill in a week.
I have at least filled the forms in for the Comune and have been assured that when their computer system that has crashed comes up again they will calculate my tax. He even said my future bills will be sent to my UK address.
We shall see how it progresses.
Ciao from a warm, slightly cloudy with a light breeze Santa Maria di Ricadi on the west coast of Calabria.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 20th, 2017, 2:59 pm 
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Just viewed what I wrote a year ago.
I have not received a TARSI bill from the Comune so have decided not to pursue it and waste my time any longer. It will be up to the Comune now to chase me for any outstanding debts.
My IMU is paid twice a year so maybe the TARSI is included in that?
Has anybody had experience in paying both these taxes?

BTW perhaps I should have posted the bad news about the advance payment of income tax for rentals on this thread and not "Rentals 2016" !!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 21st, 2017, 12:54 pm 
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I just use a local commercialista to pay my local taxes


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2017, 10:37 am 
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Apart from myself going to the Comune many times over the years I have had local residents go as well. They have always been fobbed off with some excuse or other. They seem to be so inefficient!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 22nd, 2017, 6:29 pm 
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I pay my IMU when I visit. After visiting the Commune a few times, I got my rubbish (TARI) and water posted to my UK address last year and paid them in Oct. I've only received the water this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 26th, 2017, 9:50 pm 
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Evie,
My IMU for this half year has just been paid by my friend living nearby. No change to the amount charged.
I am flying from STN to SUF tomorrow with my grandchildren and daughter for a week. I will definitely not be wasting my time going to the Comune regarding my TARSI tax!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 26th, 2017, 10:03 pm 
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David

Tarsi is separate from IMU & I think I'm right in saying you have to register for it at your Town hall (Comune office)
Have a great holiday with your family.

Lorica


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 27th, 2017, 11:33 am 
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Yes David, you will have more important relaxing activities to enjoy than going to the Commune! Lorica, yes you need to register for rubbish and water at the Commune which I did and was up-to-date last year. Will sort outstanding bills including IMU when I visit in Sept.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: May 27th, 2017, 4:05 pm 
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Lorica,
I have been and friends have been to the commune inumerable times to register and pay my Tarsi and have left my UK address with them. They have said they all contact me but they never have. I have given up on them.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 6th, 2017, 12:44 pm 
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These are the questions and answers I asked my Italian accountant re rental income.

Q. I assume that all expat non-Italian residents who rent out their properties have to file a tax return whether they are retired or not.
A. Correct.

Q. Do those persons who own a property but do not rent out whether they are retired or not have to file a tax return?
A. No, if they are not resident in Italy and do not have an income arising in the territory (i.e. from rentals) then they do not need to file an Italian tax return.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 6th, 2017, 3:32 pm 
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Thanks davidnam for clearing this issue up.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 6th, 2017, 10:36 pm 
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Thanks David, that's what I thought about non-renters. I presume your 1st question is completing a tax return in Italy. I know some owners who include it in their UK tax return but not Italy but many others who have done nothing at all about tax returns.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 7th, 2017, 10:17 am 
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Evie,
Yes the 1st question is with regard to a tax return in Italy.
Those that only send a tax return to UK only are supposed to file one in Italy as well.
I don't blame them as now we all should be paying 21% of our rental income classified as short term lets!!
The only way around this is to increase our rents by 21% to get the same level of income. The effect on attracting rentals will be disastrous if we did this. What effect will this have on the tourist trade I wonder?
We as expat owners and non Italian residents are a small proportion of the rental market in Italy but there must be many thousands of Italian properties rented out on a short term let basis and not registered as a business for VAT purposes.
I don't mind paying my taxes but it is somewhat inequitable when you cannot claim hardly any relief for expenses etc. As the rules stand It will only encourage owners not to file a tax return.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 7th, 2017, 11:32 am 
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David, the new law is indeed unfair as 21% on income as opposed to profits but maybe it'll not happen! If it does I think I will stop renting out!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 8th, 2017, 10:36 pm 
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Evie,
Even after paying the tax the 79% we get will help to defray some of the expenses like Condo fees, advertising costs etc.
What I have been doing this past two days is increasing my rental charges to soften the tax charge. Putting them up the full 21% is not on as it would make the rents noncompetitive.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 9th, 2017, 2:10 pm 
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I have just had my booking details from Atraveo for the guest they have booked in August. They have deducted 21% of the rental cost to pay the Agenzia. With their commission (15%), VAT (22% on their commission) and the flat rate tax ie a total of 39.3% has been taken off the rental costs as my payment.
This unfortunately was booked before I had amended my rental rates to take into account of the 21% tax.
I have now amended my rates and they are now quite expensive compared to similar properties where I am in Capo Vaticano. I have only ever had one other guest through Atraveo back in 2013 and advertising through them is free.
It will be interesting to find out eventually what other Italian holiday home renters and expats are going to do with their rents. I know that the Agenzia have been cracking down on some owners. But if they are Italian residents they can register as a business and get the benefits of their expenses being taken into account.
It pays to amend ones rental charges early if you are planning to amend them. I now have two bookings for next year on the '2017' prices. It is good to know that potential renters are planning early for their holidays.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 10th, 2017, 6:33 pm 
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David, that is diappointing that Atraveo have deducted the 21%. No such word from Homeaway yet!


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 12th, 2017, 4:12 pm 
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I have just received TripAdvisors new T & C's.
This is a copy of what I have read under their heading of 'Taxes'

"9.10 • You understand and agree that tax authorities where Your Property is located may require taxes to be collected on the amount paid for the right to use and/or occupancy of the Property, and to be remitted to the tax authority. The laws vary by jurisdiction, but taxes may be required to be collected and remitted as a percentage of the Rental Fees, a set amount per day, or other variations, and are sometimes called “occupancy taxes,” “hotel taxes,” “lodging taxes,” “transient taxes,” “sales and use taxes,” “value added taxes,” “room taxes” or “tourist taxes” (collectively, “Occupancy Taxes“).

9.11• We may elect, in Our sole discretion, to facilitate collection and remittance of Occupancy Taxes from or on behalf of You or Travellers (“Collection and Remittance”). In any jurisdiction in which We facilitate Collection and Remittance, in lieu of You collecting Occupancy Taxes from Travellers and remitting to the tax authority, You hereby instruct and authorize Us to collect Occupancy Taxes from Travellers on Your behalf at the time Rental Fees are collected, and to arrange remittance of such Occupancy Taxes to the appropriate tax authority on Your behalf.

9.12• We will disclose to You the amount of Occupancy Taxes, if any, that We Collect and Remit relating to Your Properties. Where We facilitate Collection and Remittance relating to a Booking, You agree that You shall not collect any Occupancy Taxes being collected by Us relating to such Booking. You agree to release, defend, indemnify, and hold Us and Our affiliates and subsidiaries, and their officers, directors, employees and agents, harmless from and against any claims, liabilities, damages, losses, debts, obligations, and expenses, including, without limitation, reasonable legal and/or accounting fees, arising out of or in any way related to Occupancy Taxes, including, without limitation, the applicability of, calculation, collection or remittance of Occupancy Taxes related to Your Bookings and/or Properties. Where We facilitate Collection and Remittance, You grant us permission, without further notice, to store, transfer and disclose data and other information relating to You or to Your transactions, Bookings, Properties and Occupancy Taxes, including, but not limited to, personally identifiable information such as Your name, Property Listing addresses, transaction dates and amounts, tax identification numbers, the amount of taxes collected from Travellers or allegedly due, contact information and similar information, to the relevant tax authority.

9.13• You agree that We may seek additional amounts from You in the event that the taxes collected and/or remitted are insufficient to fully discharge Your obligations to the applicable tax authority, and agree that Your sole remedy for Occupancy Taxes collected is a refund of Occupancy Taxes that We collected from the applicable tax authority."

I must admit I have only just checked the current T & C's dated 2017 and under 'Taxes' it is basically the same but is slightly different as it had 12 para graphs, the new one as of October 16th has 13.

We will find out in due course whether they are going to deduct the 21% if a booking goes tghrough them.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 12th, 2017, 7:03 pm 
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Thanks David, fingers crossed


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: October 13th, 2017, 10:15 am 
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I assume that Trip Advisor will have to inform us if they are to take the 21% off at source and send us the balance. Here's hoping!.


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 Post subject: Re: Italian Income Tax
PostPosted: December 7th, 2018, 1:58 pm 
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If you are not UK-domiciled, They can pay UK tax on their worldwide income and gains OR they can choose to pay tax on foreign income only when they bring the funds to the UK (subject to paying an annual remittance basis charge if they have been resident for a number of years)


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