A free and open forum for and by Calabria property owners.
View unanswered posts | View active topics Register | Login

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


This section is a private section only for registered users and exists for the private exchange of information amongst members.

By being a registered user and accessing this section you accept our terms and conditions and agree that posts are owned by their poster and specifically that the forum's administrators and moderators have no responsibility whatsoever and cannot be asked to remove, edit or otherwise change opinions expressed in this forum.

Per quelli che non capiscono l'Inglese: Questa e' una sezione riservata ai membri del forum. Diventando membro del forum e accedendo a questa sezione accetti le condizioni del forum ed inoltre accetti che le opinioni espresse in questa sezione sono la proprietà e responsabilità dell'autore e che gli amministratori del forum non hanno nessuna responsabilità legale e nessun obbligo a rimuove articoli.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 12th, 2014, 9:37 am 
Offline

Joined: May 30th, 2007, 8:32 am
Posts: 218
A big thank you to Pietro Gatto from AG Law for securing the refund of our full deposit for Bella Vista 2.

It has been a gruelling 7 years.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 13th, 2014, 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: June 5th, 2007, 4:36 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Italy
Thank you for the update Howard, and well done avvocato Pietro Gatto.

Are you in a position to explain the terms and conditions under which this refund has been possible? Did you sue the developer or the lawyer who represented you initially?

As time goes by I hear more of people successfully recovering deposits indicating the Italian system that protects buyers is slow but ultimately fair. Do you agree?

All the best,

Dennis.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 13th, 2014, 1:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: May 30th, 2007, 8:32 am
Posts: 218
It was from two stabs at the insurer who insured the lawyer. Dont forget its who you paid the initial deposit to that is critical here.

I must add that Pietro has been excellent at handling this after two other lawyers had promised the earth and failed. I contacted Pietro after seeing his details on this site, so a big thanks to you also.

I might even visit Italy for a holiday now.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 15th, 2014, 2:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 5th, 2007, 4:36 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Italy
That's good news Howard, I am happy it all worked out in the end. Thank's for sharing the details that may interest others.

Dennis.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 17th, 2014, 3:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 26th, 2008, 9:40 pm
Posts: 95
Dennis / Howard,

I am not familiar with the full history of this case (Howard at Bella Vista 2)..... Was the lawyer Giambrone, and was it his insurer that you got your deposit back from? Or did it involve a lawyer in Italy and an insurer in Italy? Were proceedings taken out in Italy? I had not heard of anyone getting their deposit back using the Italian system....but perhaps I am rather out of touch. I thought the only success people had had was using the courts in England or Northern Ireland against Giambrone, which to date have all been settled out of court, but would be happy to be set straight....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 18th, 2014, 8:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 18th, 2009, 1:01 pm
Posts: 39
Gracie

The building loan guarantee in Italy that is meant to safeguard buyers is not worth the paper its written on. Don't think You will be able to find a foreign cheated buyer with a successful claim on their BLG in Calabria. You will also find that the Italian legal system can not be relied on and does not protect any cheated foreign buyers. Don't think anyone has heard of an Italian system in Calabria that has protected a cheated foreign buyer get their money back from a developer, however, you would have heard of thousands of foreign buyers in Calabria who have lost out as a result of buying a property from a developer in Calabria.

However, as you have indicated correctly those that have used the English courts to sue against those lawyers registered under the British law society have now started getting their money back.

You will find the success against the solicitor mentioned in this thread is against the solicitor who was registered under the English law society, who then took all the files and fled to Italy and was struck off by the SRA for a number of reasons. Guess you managed to figure that out yourself.

So the lesson to learn here is to employ a solicitor registered under the English law society to do the due diligence.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 20th, 2014, 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: May 30th, 2007, 8:32 am
Posts: 218
The thing in my favour was that I paid my deposit to a solicitor in the UK who was not supposed to release my funds until a contract was in place. I actually still do not know if the funds got transfered to the developer or retained. Either way, there was no evidence that a contract was ever in place and therefore the claim was against the solicitors insurer.
Obviously if you paid the money directly to the developer then you have a slightly different issue.

I claimed most of my deposit back via the SRA, however I used Pietro to recover the balance.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 20th, 2014, 11:37 am 
Offline

Joined: May 21st, 2010, 11:46 am
Posts: 23
I thought the insurer wasn't paying out any more claims due to the "aggregation clause"? Has that issue gone away now?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: November 20th, 2014, 12:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 5th, 2007, 4:36 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Italy
Thanks for the details Howard!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: December 31st, 2014, 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: December 31st, 2014, 10:24 am
Posts: 1
Thanks for the useful info...


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: January 4th, 2015, 12:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 19th, 2008, 1:20 am
Posts: 540
Glad you got your money back Howard, bet that made a nice christmas for you and yours with no more worries


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: January 11th, 2015, 12:33 am 
Offline

Joined: October 18th, 2010, 6:54 pm
Posts: 26
Howard, my genuine congratulations to you and thank you for sharing.
Although my attempted to purchase in Calabria was not in Bella Vista 2,I feel we were all in the same boat, my development was "Jewel of the Sea"
In the beginning of 2010 we issued proceedings in Italy against the builder a Mr A. Cuppari,in Dec 12' less than three years after (we were told to expect 5/7) we had our day in court.
The outcome of the judgment was a total success for us as the Judge fully recognised our right to be refunded with double the amount of the deposit originally paid,the 3,000E paid as booking deposit and the legal interest on it since 10/5/2010 (this would be the normal outcome in Italian law for a"late delivery" case,if the property was not delivered by the builder on agreed time/within reason and visa versa) In addition, the Judge recognised a forfeit compensation for legal fees of €18,244.00 plus a further 21% Italian Vat and 4% Law Bar tax to be added on top.
As the builder did not make contact with us to pay up !!! our next step was to start enforceable proceedings which was the only possible route aimed to force the building company to pay.
March 13' - Mafia arrests ‘Operazione Metropolis’, JOTS is seizes (along with other developments) Cuppari and Fitzsimons (promoter VFI) arrested assets seized.
Judicial Administrators took over the running of the development and before long they put in an appeal against our awarded Judgement.
We had a number of dates in court for this appeal. The final hearing of the appeal was in November last, when incredibly the Court of Appeal in Reggio Calabria 'nullified’ the outcomes and findings (Courts own 'Ruling' recognising our right to refund of double deposit etc,.) we obtained in the 1st proceeding.
Next step - To get recognised as 'Creditors'
Advise we have received to take further proceedings to become creditors - If pursued it will be long, expensive and with no guarantee concerning the possible outcome –timescales, possible costs and outcome cannot be estimated neither roughly predicted,even if we reach a final successful outcome, it will be hard to recover the money,effectively recovering the credits, if it will be ever possible, will be exceptionally difficult.

In a previous post (Nov 13th,2014,11:06am)
Dennis wrote - "As time goes by I hear more of people successfully recovering deposits indicating the Italian system that protects buyers is slow but ultimately fair. Do you agree?

I cannot agree with this statement as the total opposite has been my experience.

Has anyone who used the Italian court system recovered their deposits?

We have not been treated fair,we are all E.U.citizens and the Government of each member Country have a duty under Law to protected buyers not to stand by and let people put down deposits when members of their councils responsible for PP etc,. were under surveillance / getting arrested as far back as early 08'.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2015, 1:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 18th, 2010, 6:54 pm
Posts: 26
Can I take it that the answer is NO to the question "Has anyone who used the Italian court system recovered their deposits" ?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: January 28th, 2015, 10:59 am 
Offline

Joined: May 30th, 2007, 8:32 am
Posts: 218
Hi, I tried the Italian Court, paid an Italian Solicitor but got no where, thats why I used an English Legal Team. I did approach a couple of firms, but to be honest the figures they were quoting for effectively doing a multi claim was ridiculous. One firm quoted circa £10k with no guarantee!
Can I make it clear it was not just my deposit I recovered, I also got back the 50% deposit.

I wonder how many more people have still not even realised they will never have a dream home. When I was looking to purchase the properties were relatively cheap and some people were trying to buy 2. However when the £ crashed, I think they were going to be in a real problem and possibly are thankfull the developments never went ahead so sacrificed their deposits so as not to pay the remainder.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: February 2nd, 2015, 2:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: February 26th, 2008, 9:40 pm
Posts: 95
incalabria wrote:
Thank you for the update Howard, and well done avvocato Pietro Gatto.

Are you in a position to explain the terms and conditions under which this refund has been possible? Did you sue the developer or the lawyer who represented you initially?

As time goes by I hear more of people successfully recovering deposits indicating the Italian system that protects buyers is slow but ultimately fair. Do you agree?

All the best,

Dennis.


I think the fact that the only success stories we are hearing are where buyers have used the UK justice system and recovered money from the professional indemnity insurer by litigating against Giambrone (then settling out of court) shows the exact opposite. The Italian system completely fails buyers and gives them no protection whatsoever. Our "bank loan guarantees" were worthless bits of paper. Dennis, I would be very interested to hear of ANY cases which have been successful (and real money recovered) through the Italian courts. My impression is that it is high risk, involving taking very expensive legal action in Calabria with a very uncertain outcome as so many individuals on all levels seem to be tainted by corruption in this part of the world.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bella Vista 2
PostPosted: February 2nd, 2015, 6:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 5th, 2007, 4:36 pm
Posts: 1105
Location: Italy
Gracie wrote:
I think the fact that the only success stories we are hearing are where buyers have used the UK justice system and recovered money from the professional indemnity insurer by litigating against Giambrone (then settling out of court) shows the exact opposite


Of course you are right, Gracie, I think that is clear by now.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group