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 Post subject: Seized Sites & Progress
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2013, 8:16 pm 
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Hi
Our complex was seized as part of 'Operation Metropolis' but it appears we are legitimate owners and our individual apartments are not 'involved'. In one sense this is a huge relief in that we were hoping it may remove certain individuals from the complex and allow genuine owners to get on with having a little place in the sun. However it appear to go from bad to worse and I have completely lost faith in Italy and anything Italian.

Our electricity has been cut off because the building company that has been seized did not pay it's electricity bill (this supply was also being 'siphoned' off to other complexes) we were on builders electricity and have been waiting 4 years for our meters to be fitted despite paying 1900 euros at completion Bizarrely, ENEL have said that they will only reinstate the power if the 100 English speaking owners pay the old bill and pay to have meters connected to the whole site - 200 apartments in total. The authorities that have seized the complex think that is ok and it is perfectly acceptable for the Italians on site not to pay a penny. We (well English speaking folks) will therefore be unable to get electric on site before the summer. Many have had to cancel holidays and residents have had to move out. BUT it appears one Italian owner is able to get power restored for July & August (so he can rent his apartments) at the click of his fingers, does anyone know how he is able to do this :lol: and if anyone has any contacts in ENEL that give straight answers I would really appreciate some advice/information .....or perhaps contact names of any investigative reporters that are looking for a story that just couldn't be made up.


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PostPosted: June 3rd, 2013, 9:19 pm 
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Joined: January 25th, 2008, 8:35 pm
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Location: Herefordshire/Badolato
How about contacting your mep and getting him/her to speak to the mep for the area?


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PostPosted: June 3rd, 2013, 10:15 pm 
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Location: Berkshire/Marina di Caulonia
Do a search on this forum, re Journalist and several are mentioned. So sorry about your situation.


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PostPosted: June 4th, 2013, 11:31 am 
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Wispa wrote:
Bizarrely, ENEL have said that they will only reinstate the power if the 100 English speaking owners pay the old bill and pay to have meters connected to the whole site - 200 apartments in total. The authorities that have seized the complex think that is ok and it is perfectly acceptable for the Italians on site not to pay a penny.


The above clearly cannot be right and I am sure there must be a misunderstanding somewhere. I'd be happy to make a few phone calls on your behalf, just send me a PM.

Enel is big, incredibly slow, expensive, bureaucratic and even unfair - but this does not make sense at all.

Dennis.


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PostPosted: June 4th, 2013, 11:54 am 
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Wispa,

I am forming the impression that the authorities that have seized the developments see us non-Italians as cash cows to be milked for everything possible.

At Jewel of the Sea, while we have had no direct communication from the administrators, we are informed by the founder of the JOTS buyers forum that the new administrators will only communicate with those who wish to continue with their purchase and hand over more money. Those who, like you, have lost all faith will simply be ignored, despite handing over their 50% deposits 6 years ago and seeing nothing for their money.

I am rapidly losing any hope that the authorities will have any wish to help us get any money back - it seems legal robbers are simply replacing the criminals, and none of the bureaucrats can be trusted.

Italy seems to be a country "blessed by God and cursed by man", and one which I am rapidly falling out of love with....


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PostPosted: June 4th, 2013, 5:02 pm 
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Location: Herefordshire/Badolato
Your solicitor on the purchase have they not contacted the administrator?


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PostPosted: June 4th, 2013, 6:09 pm 
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Hi - thank you all for your replies.

Dennis - thank you for your offer, I need to confirm a few points about what ENEL have said and I will PM you once I have some more info. It is very kind of you.

Gracie - I know exactly how you feel, I think we are collateral damage and our money was been used to build a case for this operation . The authorities started this 'sting' just at the time we started to look to buy, it was 2 years in by the time we completed so plenty of time for us to be 'warned off'. I cannot believe the Italian Authorities are able to use people life savings for them to make some in-roads into organised crime.

Ionian - Yes we have a very good solicitor on board and is on the case but I think he is frustrated at the behaviour of his fellow countrymen, he expected it of some but he is finding it very difficult dealing with the very people that have been put in place to sort the mess out and is being blocked at every turn. We naively expected the authorities to play by the rules.



Thanks al


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PostPosted: June 5th, 2013, 4:09 pm 
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Wispa, so sorry about your situation. Not only the authorities but it seems that a number of legal professionals watched us all hand over our money so that they could profit from this sting. I hope you get your electricity back very soon.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 7:22 am 
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Location: London
Has anyone sought consular assistance from the British Embassy in Naples?

A BBC documentary about the plight of British buyers is as I understand it already in production but if your lawyer is to be believed Wispa, and others are suffering similar circumstances, the British need to join together, hire a PR agency and organise a co-ordinated press campaign in the British and Italian press. No time like the present.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 10:12 am 
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Does anyone have a contact in the BBC that could find out if a programme is being made as Lavender suggest?

Res Amusa 140 apartment complex (seized)

75 owners are likely to have the builders supply of electricity cut off before too long. It seems the only option is for these buyers is to cough up €86,000 between them to get a permanent supply of electricity even though the majority of these owners paid the builder €1400 connection fees (€750 of this sum was for electricity the rest was for water and gas) The builder still owns about 65 of the apartments on the complex but Enel insist they have to fit 140 meters which means the builder will get his supply/meters for nothing!
These buyers are currently paying for the builders supply of electricity.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 10:36 am 
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Location: London
Lorica, I have sent you an email. There is some interest from another major British TV company as well and there is a lot of mainstream British press interest in Operation Metropolis for obvious reasons.

If all the buyers on all the developments who were suffering similar problems joined together to launch a press campaign to highlight those problems and others and combined them with questions relating to the dispersal of funds from the EU Cohesion Fund to Italy to revitalise the area, I would imagine a lot of people who can help resolve these problems would jump at the chance and I would also imagine ENEL would capitulate and install the meters for a lot less money than you are quoting in your post and more importantly a lot quicker.

No time like the present.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 11:14 am 
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Lavender,
I have appealed to both the Irish and British Embassies in Rome.
I did not even recieve a reply from the British, and the Irish Ambassador
said they could not intervene as it was an 'Italian matter' and advised
to take legal action.
mel


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 1:43 pm 
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Location: London
Hi Mel,

That's a bit disappointing to hear. Their Facebook page says:

"The British network in Italy is responsible for promoting British interests overseas & supporting citizens & businesses in Italy"

https://www.facebook.com/ukinitaly

If you have been a victim of crime abroad and need help, then they should support and assist you but they are not going to strain political relations with Italy if there are only a few people contacting them for help. Likewise for MP's and MEP's in the House of Commons/European Parliament.

These issues clearly aren't going to resolve themselves, and if you want essential services like water and electricity, proper management companies etc which you will need if you even want to consider renting or selling, it's starting to sound like you will have to start making some noise, individually and collectively and en masse.

Twitter would be great way to bring press attention - Send @UKinItaly a message and also address to the journalist or newspaper covering the Operation Metropolis story but an organised campaign via a PR agency who already have the right contacts is the best route to getting the story covered by the press.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 3:44 pm 
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Location: Berkshire/Marina di Caulonia
I am sure English speaking owners on my complex,which hasn't been seized, would join forces with you to increase the size of complaint. I am on Colinetta which has the gas and electricity set up but also has other problems that we are getting nowhere with.


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PostPosted: June 6th, 2013, 8:33 pm 
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Hi Lavender, do you have more details about the reporters that are following this - I would like to contact them.

Lorica - your situation sounds almost sound identical to ours - do you have a owners group?


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 12:11 am 
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Location: Canada
Wispa wrote:
Hi
Our complex was seized as part of 'Operation Metropolis' but it appears we are legitimate owners and our individual apartments are not 'involved'. In one sense this is a huge relief in that we were hoping it may remove certain individuals from the complex and allow genuine owners to get on with having a little place in the sun. However it appear to go from bad to worse and I have completely lost faith in Italy and anything Italian.

Our electricity has been cut off because the building company that has been seized did not pay it's electricity bill (this supply was also being 'siphoned' off to other complexes) we were on builders electricity and have been waiting 4 years for our meters to be fitted despite paying 1900 euros at completion Bizarrely, ENEL have said that they will only reinstate the power if the 100 English speaking owners pay the old bill and pay to have meters connected to the whole site - 200 apartments in total. The authorities that have seized the complex think that is ok and it is perfectly acceptable for the Italians on site not to pay a penny. We (well English speaking folks) will therefore be unable to get electric on site before the summer. Many have had to cancel holidays and residents have had to move out. BUT it appears one Italian owner is able to get power restored for July & August (so he can rent his apartments) at the click of his fingers, does anyone know how he is able to do this :lol: and if anyone has any contacts in ENEL that give straight answers I would really appreciate some advice/information .....or perhaps contact names of any investigative reporters that are looking for a story that just couldn't be made up.


I have come to the same conclusion I wish now that I never had made a purchase in Italy. Southern Italy is so Lawless and full of scammers. We will never get back The money we spent on PBC. there never seems to a end to all B.S.


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 7:28 am 
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Wispa

Yes we have an owners group. I will PM you with my email address.

Lorica


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 1:33 pm 
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I think the only way to get the attention of people who can do something about this is, as suggested, a massive PR campaign. We are all paying lawyers to sort this all out but we could speed things up with some mass protest. I have said for a long time that we have people power as collectively, we are a LOT of people and can make an awful lot if noise. It was people power that got rid of the poll tax so why are we not using the same force to get the attention of those people who would not want this situation seen by the rest of Europe or the World. Picketing outside ENEL's offices in Rome would raise our profile to local media as well as inside ENEL. Engaging a reputable PR firm would get our message to a lot of useful contacts which alone we wil struggle to do. Perhaps we start a new thread here to collect details of those willing to join in the fight by contributing to the costs of hiring a firm or those willing to picket out side ENELS offices...


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PostPosted: June 7th, 2013, 5:11 pm 
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sunflower wrote:
Perhaps we start a new thread here to collect details of those willing to join in the fight by contributing to the costs of hiring a firm or those willing to picket out side ENELS offices...


I would rather you did that elsewhere - Facebook or something. Believe it or not, but we're still in the business of selling quality property in Calabria (and elsewhere now as well) with proper due diligence and about a hundred happy clients who are enjoying their homes around Tropea, Capo Vaticano and Zambrone and who love the area.

That is not to say that we don't care - because we do, and very much regret the situation. I also renew my offer to be of assistance where I can and I would like to advise future buyers to take their time to research and to buy only from reputable companies with a proven track record such as ourselves.

Dennis.


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2013, 9:01 am 
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Hi Dennis, I understand your point about not using this forum but I would just like to point out that. I thought I was buying from a reputable company 'Medsea' which at the time of my research into the company came highly recommended - what I didn't bank on was corruption on such a scale and dodgy solicitors (which I also researched at the time with the Law Society as it was then). :cry:


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PostPosted: June 9th, 2013, 7:59 am 
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I know, at the time nearly all agents and developers for the international markets were new to the area or to the business - including ourselves if we're talking 2006.

Today's it's easy to see who has delivered and who has not, and that is what prospective buyers should look for.


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PostPosted: June 9th, 2013, 2:47 pm 
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Location: Messina, Italy - London, UK
Dear Members,
following you find a rough translation of the official 'informative note' received from the Authorities in relation to San Rocco II (I tried to attach the original doc, but without result). (SEE NEXT POST FOR PDF DOCS.)
The Authorities have expressly asked to divulge it, so feel free to do it..
Actually, it would be appropriate to publish all the previous correspondence had in relation to the case. If anyone is interested in receiving the original doc or any other doc relating to the Administration of the seizure, please let me know.
Form many reasons it is essential to divulge all the information relating to the current situation in the present issue.


"
To: OWNERS and
PROSPECTIVE BUYERS of
Apartments in
Residential Complex “SAN ROCCO II”
Via Dei Platani Isca Sullo Ionio


The undersigned ing. Filippo Maria Maltese, arch. Antonia Tamiro, avv. Miriam Fasci e dott. Giuseppe Palumbo, state as follows to provide exhaustive information on the current situation in the complex San Rocco II and the building company Lagano Srl.–
On 5th March 2013 the company LAGANO CONSTRUZIONI srl and the building complex named "SAN ROCCO II", located in the Town of Isca, were subjected to the judicial order of precautionary seizure.
In order to provide for its custody and administration, the Court of Reggio Calabria appointed the undersigned, who took possession on 26th March 2013.-
The cited Judicial Administrators intend to highlight in advance that it will be primarily protecting not only the interests of the Company appointed to them but also the interests of those who, for various reasons, have previously dealt with it.
Particular attention will be paid to the rights of third-party purchasers, owners and /or prospective buyers whom have paid a deposit, who will be duly protected and guaranteed.
To this end, it is worth noting the following:
1. Anyone who already owns a property -having signed a public deed of sale properly transcribed- will continue to enjoy, as owner, the acquired property without any restrictions. –
2. Prospective buyers who wish to complete the purchase by signing the public final deed of sale can forward to the administrators their explicit and documented written request, so that the administrators may ascertain the legitimacy of their position, so that they can complete the purchase in the shortest possible time. –
3. By resolution of the Judicial Authority all the existing apartments in San Rocco II complex which are currently unsold and owned by Lagano CONSTRUCTION Srl and ISCA DREAM SRL (a company which is also subject to seizure) will be put on sale. –
4. It is relevant to highlight that according to the legislation in force, applicable to the present procedure; no enforcement action/procedure can be initiated or continued.
The undersigned Judicial Administrators, however, express their availability for potential amicable settlements in relation to any possible dispute that may rise.
5. The Judicial Administrators reject any liability in connection with speculations and/or information arbitrarily spread by third parties which are not expressly authorised by them. -
In relation to the issues of the building complex which urgently require a rapid solution, it is stated as follows:

1. RECONNECTION OF THE ELECTRICAL ENERGY
When granted possession, the Administrators were informed that the expenses relating to the electricity supply, relating to the entire building complex premises, had always been borne exclusively by the building company registered which was the holder of the energy supply contract, and that recently, due to lack of funds in their bank accounts, the company had not paid the past bills which dated back to a period before the seizure.
For this reason the Company ENEL, with effect from the first days of March, has suspended the energy supply.–
It is relevant to point out that the interruption of the supply from ENEL was not a direct or indirect consequence of the seizure, but it was solely due to non-payment of bills issued by ENEL. –
In order to reactivate the supply of electricity it is therefore necessary to be in possession of a lump sum, which currently amounts to approximately € 13,817.87 which at the moment is not available from the company assets, nor is it predicted to be shortly found for this purpose.
Considering that the users of the electrical energy are the individual apartments -many of which have already been sold to a third parties- in order to reactivate the supply while waiting for what is required to equip the complex with two electrical substations, it is considered appropriate that for each apartment, the corresponding owner would make a payment addressed to LAGANO Construzioni srl., to the following bank account:
IBAN code: IT 65 U 05256 42770 000000945628
BIC code: BPM 0IT22 XXX
contribution payment of € 150.00, with reference "Pagamento bollette Enel scadute".-
It is of course assumed that monies paid in advance by the owners in favour of LAGANO Construzioni Srl., if recognized as not due (for example, if the owners show that they have already paid to the company sums of money for this purpose), is going to determine a right of credit against the same company LAGANO COSTRUZIONI srl, this issue will be clarified after the constitution of the condominium.
All owners are therefore invited to process the payment as detailed above in the quickest possible time, bearing in mind that the non-payment by even a single owner will be a barto full payment to ENEL and consequently will not allow for the reconnection of electricity.
2. COMPLETION OF THE MAIN ELECTRICITY SYSTEM (CABIN) AND POWER METER CONNECTION
Within the building complex premises, 2 ‘areas’ have already been allotted by the building company, at which to place/install the electrical cabins which actually are not entirely ready because of the lack of doors, ventilation grills and, in addition, because they are not registered at the relevant authority in the Catasto; those spaces have to be previously transferred to ENEL for the placement of the necessary equipment (cabins) needed to power the entire complex.
With this aim, these administrators have already contacted the ENEL and have been advised that the estimate of costs of "quota distanza" would amount to approximately Euro 50,000.00.-
In addition, the procedure also requires the submission of a new application for the connection, after having registered the two cabins in the category D1, and complied with the urban planning legal requirements.
Only after the completion of the distribution network within the Complex and the complete installation of the equipment/cabins by ENEL, owners may request the individual connection of the supply for domestic purposes relating to their own units. –
Again, the company LAGANO srl does not have the corresponding sum, so it is necessary to seek payment of the estimated costs from the buyers/owners of the individual units, temporarily exempting the company from any liability and expense. –
It is assumed that sums paid in advance by the owners for this purpose, if recognised as not due (e.g. if the owners can prove that they have already paid the company for this purpose), would lead to a credit in favour of said buyers against LAGANO CONSTRUCTION srl.
The administrator of the complex to be appointed will be in charge of those particular aspects, when will be formed a regular ‘condominium’
3. CONSTITUTION OF CONDOMINIUM
The residential complex SAN ROCCO II has not been constituted as a ‘Condominium’; this circumstance makes it particularly difficult for the management of the common spaces.–
It is therefore appropriate and necessary to set up the Condominium, thus an Administrator for the Condominium will be appointed, and he will be entrusted with the task of looking into the specific interests of individual owners and the entire residential complex. –
With this aim, the undersigned Administrators invite all owners of the property units to attend in person or through a legal representative provided with a legitimate mandate, to attend the first condominium meeting which will be held next
06 July 2013 at 10:30 -unique convocation
to arrange the formal constitution of the ‘Condominium’ in the San Rocco II Complex and for the designation and appointment of the ‘Condominium Administrator’ who will be entrusted forcarrying out all the legal requirements relating to the regularisation of the Condominium itself.
In the initial phase, we have to emphasise that with respect to some names that have been put forward for the assumption of that office, the GIP of Reggio Calabria dott. Minniti, with resolution dated 22 May 2013 has proposed geom. Paolo CASTELLANO as administrator of the condominium. –
The present informative note will be posted on the door of the registered office of the Lagano Costruzioni Srl which is located in the Residential Complex San Rocco II, it will be sent by email to Avv. Minasi and Avv. Virga so that they may impart knowledge to the individuals they represent and it will be sent via e-mail to Mr. Kenny Macleod. –
Because these Judicial Administrators do not have the addresses of all owners and prospective buyers of the real estate units, we invite you to spread the knowledge the present note. –

The Judicial Administration
Ing. Filippo Maltese
Arch. Antonella Tamiro
Avv. Miriam Fascì
Dott. Giuseppe Palumbo


''


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PostPosted: June 9th, 2013, 7:37 pm 
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Attached please find the mentioned documents from the tribunal:

http://www.selectiveitaly.com/forum/attachments/informativa-da-Amministratori-giudiziari.pdf
And the english translation:
http://www.selectiveitaly.com/forum/attachments/Informative_note_EN.pdf


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PostPosted: June 10th, 2013, 1:54 pm 
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I am amazed that I am being expected to pay more money into a bank account of a comapny that has been seized ?? - I have already paid LAGANO €360 for interim electricity, not to mention €1900 for the connection yet we are still waiting for a proper supply. (along with the other 101 English speaking owners)

The outstanding bill was for approx €6,000 how did that double when we have had no electricity since the site was seized ?

The power line was actually feeding two other sites that we know of so I am not sure why only English speaking owners on SR are being asked to pay the bill when it was acutally Italian owners that had rented their apartments to full time residents on SR and other sites.

They want to have a meeting in July - this is joke last year we arranged, at tremendous effort, two condominum meetings which most residents attended. They ended up being a farce as a certain Italian owner decided to spend 4 hours (yes 4 hours) going over ever piece of paper to see if the meeting was compliant :lol: :roll: :lol: and then disagreed with anything that meant he would have to pay his share for his 20 apartments. I wonder if this particular individual will do the same to the authorities but I guess this is Italy so I know what the answer to that will be. Time for to contact the Press & MEP's etc....although I guess they will come up with the same barriers. I am not sure there is anything will save Calabria from this rot :(


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PostPosted: June 10th, 2013, 3:48 pm 
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I think you all shld go to the meeting or send a representative with documentation in support of their right to vote on your behalf. From reading the above it would appear if you can prove you paid the connection charge ie a completion statement with bank transfer document you can claim a credit against the co. I would do that ASAP this wld have the added benefit of confirming your ownership to the administrators
Otherwise you have my best wishes it gets sorted soon


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PostPosted: June 10th, 2013, 10:39 pm 
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You are spot on as usual Ionian.
It's a Fools or Knaves situation.
The 'Authorities' have cheerfully ignored the fact that we sweated out an agreement to form a Condominium and agree its Rules.
Now they are wanting a meeting to claim to form a (new!) condominium and can't or won't make the call in the proper legal format or even to be bothered to try.

Re-arrange the following words into a well-known phrase or saying: 'TAKING THEY ARE P*SS THE'

I'll leave you to decide who are the Knaves and who are the Fools.

Bob

PS I don't get that crud about the Authorities not having the names and addresses of the owners cos they are a matter of public record and the Authorities are public servants!


Last edited by Friend-of-Dr-Bob on June 15th, 2013, 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: June 11th, 2013, 12:40 pm 
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Having approached the British embassy again on their facebook page,
I have been asked to re send my complaint to infoRome@fco.gov.uk
Perhaps if all persons affected sent a simple email to highlight this problem, someone in the embassy may take up the case??
mel
"The British network in Italy is responsible for promoting British interests overseas & supporting citizens & businesses in Italy"


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PostPosted: June 18th, 2013, 10:47 pm 
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Wispa wrote:

The power line was actually feeding two other sites that we know of so I am not sure why only English speaking owners on SR are being asked to pay the bill when it was acutally Italian owners that had rented their apartments to full time residents on SR and other sites. :(


It's nearly the Italian renting season.

Perhaps they want the English speaking owners to volunteer to pay for the power so the Italian owners can maximise their income this year?

By the time the bills come in the holidays will be over and it will not matter if the power is cut off again for a few months because only the English are stupid enough to want to go on holiday out of season.

Bob's your uncle


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 11:32 am 
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Location: Ireland
Irish, UK and Italian MPs, MEPs etc: Help thousands of buyers in Southern Italy who have been ripped off. - Sign the Petition!

Please join this campaign: http://chn.ge/19Ul55w


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 12:33 pm 
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Please, don't confuse the very real issues with some giant conspiracy theory of Italians vs the rest. There are some serious problems that a coordinated campaign, including petitions, might help to focus attention on; and thus help solve. Muddying the water with accusations of judicial corruption and statements that "The authorities are siding with the developers/mafia and looking after their best interests" will not be taken seriously without considerable evidence.

A lot of facts, beliefs, myths and opinions are being confused. That's understandable given the worries that many people have and the absence of any detailed, objective, picture of the real situation and history. A scan of this board will show how many 'facts' in the past have proven to be false.

Emotion is a poor argument when trying to get authorities to act. Cold, factual, evidence-based documentation is what works best. Is anyone collating such a file?


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 1:40 pm 
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gsullymorgan wrote:
Please, don't confuse the very real issues with some giant conspiracy theory of Italians vs the rest. ...
Emotion is a poor argument when trying to get authorities to act. Cold, factual, evidence-based documentation is what works best. Is anyone collating such a file?


The evidence is that the electric power has been cut off.

The evidence is that it has been cut off now for over 3 months.

The evidence is that no Italian authority has shown any interest in facilitating the electric power being installed properly.

It is not possible to keep cool in such circumstances.

Bob's-your-Uncle


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 2:00 pm 
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You are going to see the lawyer/mep/mp/judge to prove your case what proof have you? To pursue this properly you will have to have a file of papers, copy email, bills, completion statements originals if possible, copy judgments against, developers, lawyers, notices of seizure, cessation of electric supply, builder/developer agreements, original purchase contract, notice of appointment of the adminstrator for the complex (not sure if that is correct title) copy letters to the officials dealing with the seizure notifying them of your grievances etc. Rhetoric is not listened to. Everyone affected by the seizure should have produced for their own use and in instructing the above mep etc, a file giving all this information.
We all have a fair idea of what has gone on with the developments but to win this you must keep a cool head and deal in facts. Shout, scream, kick the door, cry but do it behind closed doors then come out cool and collected so you do not miss something critical.It is the only way and you will be listened to more if you do.
All the developments that are affected have our sympathy and we will help if we can but it must be a cool considered plan of action.
How many people have now contacted their MP and MEP direct?


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 2:06 pm 
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Ionian wrote:
You are going to see the lawyer/mep/mp/judge to prove your case what proof have you? To pursue this properly you will have to have a file of papers, copy email, bills, completion statements originals if possible, copy judgments against, developers, lawyers, notices of seizure, cessation of electric supply, builder/developer agreements, original purchase contract, notice of appointment of the adminstrator for the complex (not sure if that is correct title) copy letters to the officials dealing with the seizure notifying them of your grievances etc. Rhetoric is not listened to. Everyone affected by the seizure should have produced for their own use and in instructing the above mep etc, a file giving all this information.
We all have a fair idea of what has gone on with the developments but to win this you must keep a cool head and deal in facts. Shout, scream, kick the door, cry but do it behind closed doors then come out cool and collected so you do not miss something critical.It is the only way and you will be listened to more if you do.
All the developments that are affected have our sympathy and we will help if we can but it must be a cool considered plan of action.
How many people have now contacted their MP and MEP direct?


MEPs so far have responded: 'What can I do?"

Meanwhile we sit, sweating, in the dark and washing in cold water.

Bob


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 3:15 pm 
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I would not accept that reply from my MEP. he would dread the email box, mail, telephone call from me! Not acceptable, a quick letter to the local papers about it, angry voter on the local letters page. amazing what that can do.
cold water. pop down to Millets or any other camping shop and buy a solar water heater for showers, they are very good and will help to keep you all fragrant! solar lights would give some background light too. Camping in a house, at least the rain will keep off you, we are camping this weekend and I do not like the weather forecast....
Good luck.


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PostPosted: June 20th, 2013, 6:47 pm 
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If it were me I'd buy a car battery and an invertor to make 240 volt mains. A 500 watt invertor will run your lights & a TV etc but not much else! The car battery won't last that long before needing a recharge.

Then recharge the car batteries every day with a small (loud) building site generator .........but here's the twist!........re charge them outside the local manager of ENEL from 4 am until 6 am every morning!!


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PostPosted: June 21st, 2013, 4:10 pm 
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Friend-of-Dr-Bob wrote:
gsullymorgan wrote:
Please, don't confuse the very real issues with some giant conspiracy theory of Italians vs the rest. ...
Emotion is a poor argument when trying to get authorities to act. Cold, factual, evidence-based documentation is what works best. Is anyone collating such a file?


The evidence is that no Italian authority has shown any interest in facilitating the electric power being installed properly.


Well, actually, the administrators of this condo are going in great details to explain the situation:

http://www.selectiveitaly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4274#p32256

Everybody, Italians and foreigners, are invited to contribute or send a proof of payment for connection charges.

Clearly this has been mismanaged by the developer and unfortunately Enel is one slow bureaucratic beast that has created a lot of frustration but to leap to a national conspiracy is one step to far.

Dennis.


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PostPosted: June 21st, 2013, 8:46 pm 
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you have no idea..........tell me in what country would you see a builder who has been removed as administrator by the courts, had his assets, bank accounts frozen, be under investigation and yet be put back in charge of the same development and have the people he has robbed, told they have to pay for services already paid for......not only that but be told to deposit money into his account!!!. Where's the justice? The only way to get people to see whats going on is to tell people... if thats the media then i cannot wait to see the documentary that tells the world all about it. People need to see what has really been going on. Use the newspapers, TV, radio, MP's, MEP's anyone to shame the people who have the power to put things right for the hundreds of people who have been robbed into doing something about it.


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PostPosted: June 25th, 2013, 9:07 am 
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Dennis Onstenk wrote:
Friend-of-Dr-Bob wrote:
gsullymorgan wrote:
Please, don't confuse the very real issues with some giant conspiracy theory of Italians vs the rest. ...
Emotion is a poor argument when trying to get authorities to act. Cold, factual, evidence-based documentation is what works best. Is anyone collating such a file?


The evidence is that no Italian authority has shown any interest in facilitating the electric power being installed properly.
Well, actually, the administrators of this condo are going in great details to explain the situation:
http://www.selectiveitaly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4274#p32256
Everybody, Italians and foreigners, are invited to contribute or send a proof of payment for connection charges.
Clearly this has been mismanaged by the developer and unfortunately Enel is one slow bureaucratic beast that has created a lot of frustration but to leap to a national conspiracy is one step to far.
Dennis.


Dennis, normally I agree with you but in this instance I regret I cannot except to say that the situation seems to be regional and probably not national.

THE AMOUNT
When this sum ( no-one has ever seen the alleged outstanding bill) was first mentioned just after the power was cut off in March it was said to be for €4500. A little later it had increased to €6000.
Now three months afterwards, when no power could possibly have been consumed on the site, it is claimed it has more than doubled to €13800!
Furthermore, the outstanding bills can only relate to 2 or 3 months of winter, a time when there were only a few apartments occupied. The site cannot have consumed that amount of electricity in that time at that time. Of course if the bill were to be provided for inspection it would prove or disprove the claim. The simple fact that no bill has ever been provided is suspicious in itself.
The inference is that over time other bills and charges attributable to the builder have been added in but those are nothing to do with the site. As a fact, there is an electricity cable snaking overland away to other sites the builder is connected with.

WRONG ARTHIMETIC
The arithmetic is also faulty.
There are said to be some 160 apartments not owned by the builder on the site. Owners are being 'asked' to pay €150 each. 160 X €150 = €24,000. This is in excess of the currently claimed amount of €13800 even if that sum could be shown to be correct, which I doubt. (Of course if only most of the 100+ foreign owners pay that will give sufficient to cover the alleged outstanding sum without the Italians having to pay.)
Although all owners are being ‘invited’ to pay, the foreign owners are being pressurized into trying to make them pay.

THE BANK ACCOUNT
Owners are being directed to make payments directly into the builder’s bank account. However, in my eyes and those of many owners the builder is discredited. I have lost all faith in the builder. I do not trust it. It has received all the monies necessary to complete the site including the full electric power but has not done so. It has broken many binding promises. The company is currently confiscated under Operation Metropolis. Under no circumstances would any sane person pay even more money to this firm on the strength of a vague promise. Worse yet, anyone making such a payment is in danger of losing his right to claim against the builder as it could be argued he was waiving any such rights that he may have had.

TIMING
Since the power was cut in March, many foreign owners have tried to get it restored with noted lack of success. Foreign owners use their apartments out of the main summer season. However, I note that it is only when we get to just before the Italian renting season do the Authorities seem to take any real interest.


BUILDER’S SUPPLY INADEQUATE
Next, the poor quality of the power supply. The temporary power supply, which the owners are being 'asked' to restore has only a fraction of the capacity the site requires. There were frequent and many frustrating power cuts as soon as the complex was even partly occupied. Many renters in previous years have refused to return due entirely to the poor supply and agents have refused to let apartments until the proper power supply is installed.

THE SPURIOUS CREDIT
The requirement for owners to prove they had paid for electrical connection although superficially reasonable, is in fact, ridiculous. Where in a civilized society do developers sell houses without electricity connections? What will we have next? Someone arguing that because I cannot produce a separate receipt for the doors and windows in my apartment, that I do not own them?

Anyway, the concept of having a credit is false and erroneous. I want the things I have paid a fair price for. I want the builder to provide them. If it costs him more than he has charged me, then he has made a loss. If, on the other hand it costs him less, then he makes a profit. I do not begrudge the builder his profit but I will not take on his responsibilities myself, nor will I take a credit to do so. I do begrudge him taking my money and not performing. I aslo begrudge the fact that the new government appointed builder's management team are still singing to the old discredited tune. They are 'asking' me for payment without any kind of promise that they will even try to sort out the mess.

THE UNCERTAIN FUTURE
Even if I were to pay for the temporary power to be restored, what will happen next?
First, whether they have paid or not, the owners will be able to rent their apartments over the short summer period. Then they will leave and I and similar foreign owners will be left with a massive electric bill to pay if we want to use our apartments later in the year or next spring. For me, it would be pay, pay, pay for everyone for ever.

CONCULSION

This may not be a conspiracy, however it has the hallmarks of being one and the effect is exactly the same. Meantime I am without power and deprived of the use of my home.

Bob


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PostPosted: June 25th, 2013, 7:35 pm 
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Dear Bob,

thank you for taking the time to outline your situation which is now very clear. I understand your points and agree with most of them and wished the situation was different.

Of course you cannot pay without a proper invoice and detail of what you are paying for. I do believe it is OK to pay to the developer's account however, since he is under administration. Given the circumstances and size of the development I think it is reasonable to request that the administrators open a separate bank account for the duration of the administration.

It seems that Enel is charging the developer for the installation the local power switch, which is not uncommon, and he's passing that cost on. Some developers won't, others will, good preliminary contracts protect you from these surprises. It is also reasonable that past incurred costs on the builder's meter are shared by the people who benefited from it - it will take time, but an administrator who cares should be able to work this out.

Once that hurdle is overcome everybody will be responsible for their own meter/account, and that right which should have been provided years ago cannot be taken away from you.

Since you are so many people, it may be worth hiring someone who speaks both languages to sort this all out once and for all.

Which development is this, out of interest?

All the best to all of you,

Dennis.


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PostPosted: June 25th, 2013, 9:02 pm 
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Dennis Onstenk wrote:
Dear Bob,

thank you for taking the time to outline your situation which is now very clear. I understand your points and agree with most of them and wished the situation was different.

Of course you cannot pay without a proper invoice and detail of what you are paying for. I do believe it is OK to pay to the developer's account however, since he is under administration. Given the circumstances and size of the development I think it is reasonable to request that the administrators open a separate bank account for the duration of the administration.

It seems that Enel is charging the developer for the installation the local power switch, which is not uncommon, and he's passing that cost on. Some developers won't, others will, good preliminary contracts protect you from these surprises. It is also reasonable that past incurred costs on the builder's meter are shared by the people who benefited from it - it will take time, but an administrator who cares should be able to work this out.

Once that hurdle is overcome everybody will be responsible for their own meter/account, and that right which should have been provided years ago cannot be taken away from you.

Since you are so many people, it may be worth hiring someone who speaks both languages to sort this all out once and for all.

Which development is this, out of interest?

All the best to all of you,

Dennis.


Dear Dennis, the complex is San Rocco 2 at Isca Marina.

See SLM's posting on June 9 for more details.
I think you may still be confusing payment of the (alleged) bill for electric power consumed with ENEL's charge for putting in the electric switch to the site.

I like many, if not all the others, paid the builder significant fees for ENEL making its full connections and ENEL had given him an estiamte in the early days.
Although receiving our cash, the builder did nothing towards accepting that estimate or paying ENEL its connection fee. Instead, he spent the money elsewhere and continued to provide the power through the small capactity builder's supply while promising to all and sundry that the full power would be put in 'soon'.
In my view, by providing the low capacity power at his own expense, the builder was simply mitigating his breach of contract with me by providing the full ENEL connection for which I have paid him.
Therefore, as he appears to have used my money on other things, I do not consider I have any legal or moral obligation to pay his alleged outstanding bill for consumption.

In addition the rate quoted by the Juidcial Administration is completely unfair as it bears no resmblance to the alleged outstanding amount.

As to the permanent connection by ENEL. I have already paid the builder for this and I am disgusted that I may be expected to have to pay it again.
Payment of money will not in itself be enough as the builder has not legally registered the land on which ENEL's switch housings stand as explained in the Informative Note in the June 9 posting. Without the ability to use these housings legally ENEL says it cannot install its switch equipment and therefore it cannot install or even price up the full connection.
So, as the land on which the switch equipment will stand is still owned by the builder and still unregistered, the Judicial Administration now managing the confiscated building company will have first to complete both the legal registration and the buildings for ENEL.

That process should be simple but when you read the Informative Note carefully you realize that the Judicial Administration make no mention of this.
Instead they seem focussed only on preserving the status quo of the poor quality temporary supply but now at the expense of the owners who are willing to pay up.
The Judicial Administration make no promises as to how long it will be before ENEL can install the full power and my suspicion is that it will be a long, long time.
Until that is done I cannot have my own electric meter installed and pay only for what I consume and I would be stuck with paying an unfair amount for electric power for ever.

Bob


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PostPosted: July 4th, 2013, 3:09 pm 
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Ionian wrote:
You are going to see the lawyer/mep/mp/judge to prove your case what proof have you? To pursue this properly you will have to have a file of papers, copy email, bills, completion statements originals if possible, copy judgments against, developers, lawyers, notices of seizure, cessation of electric supply, builder/developer agreements, original purchase contract, notice of appointment of the adminstrator for the complex (not sure if that is correct title) copy letters to the officials dealing with the seizure notifying them of your grievances etc. Rhetoric is not listened to. Everyone affected by the seizure should have produced for their own use and in instructing the above mep etc, a file giving all this information.
We all have a fair idea of what has gone on with the developments but to win this you must keep a cool head and deal in facts. Shout, scream, kick the door, cry but do it behind closed doors then come out cool and collected so you do not miss something critical.It is the only way and you will be listened to more if you do.
All the developments that are affected have our sympathy and we will help if we can but it must be a cool considered plan of action.
How many people have now contacted their MP and MEP direct?



Hi, I paid the 50% deposit for an apartment in San Salvador which was never built and I did contact my MP (Mr Ed Balls) to see if he could do anything through the FO, by letter and then spoke to his seceratry to try and get an appointment, but his advice was to get a lawyer!


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PostPosted: July 4th, 2013, 5:28 pm 
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Hi, I paid the 50% deposit for an apartment in San Salvador which was never built and I did contact my MP (Mr Ed Balls) to see if he could do anything through the FO, by letter and then spoke to his seceratry to try and get an appointment, but his advice was to get a lawyer![/quote]

David, the clue's in the name.
Bob


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PostPosted: July 4th, 2013, 6:58 pm 
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That reply was a tad too flip, Mr. Locky and I am sorry.

I would be seething mad if my MP had his sectretary brush me off like that with the obvious but completely unhelpful suggestion to get lawyered up.

I would have gently told him that there were X no. owners on my site who have been similarly scammed.
That the wider anti-mafia Operation Metropolis has adversly affected hundreds of UK citizens who bought in Calabria and €450 million in assets and 1350 apartments have been siezed by the Italian government. That the Italian governemnt was using British and Irish buyers to be the bait while it sprung the trap.
Although Mr. Balls MP may not be able to do anything directly he most certainly could and should alert the Britsih Foreign Office to the situation and ask pertinent questions of the Italian authorities.

The fact of his asking the question would generate publicity.

Bob


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PostPosted: July 5th, 2013, 1:19 pm 
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Friend-of-Dr-Bob wrote:
That reply was a tad too flip, Mr. Locky and I am sorry.

I would be seething mad if my MP had his sectretary brush me off like that with the obvious but completely unhelpful suggestion to get lawyered up.

I would have gently told him that there were X no. owners on my site who have been similarly scammed.
That the wider anti-mafia Operation Metropolis has adversly affected hundreds of UK citizens who bought in Calabria and €450 million in assets and 1350 apartments have been siezed by the Italian government. That the Italian governemnt was using British and Irish buyers to be the bait while it sprung the trap.
Although Mr. Balls MP may not be able to do anything directly he most certainly could and should alert the Britsih Foreign Office to the situation and ask pertinent questions of the Italian authorities.

The fact of his asking the question would generate publicity.

Bob


Bob

Thanks, you are correct I was seething.

My letter to him, was before Operation Metropolis came to light, so I have written again and have highlighted the points you quote.

In respect of your last sentence, I'm more hopeful this time, because it seems to me, one thing Mr Balls likes is publicity!!!


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PostPosted: July 10th, 2013, 2:10 pm 
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did anyone go the meeting?


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PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 7:03 am 
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Hoping progress had been made. Sorry to read that posting.


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PostPosted: July 12th, 2013, 2:54 pm 
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I suggest he sells his car(s) to raise some money then. Its gotta be worth 30K more than enough to pay off ENEL and get a little run about!.


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